Insurance

For general discussion of the Just Aircraft family of aircraft.
Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.

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Insurance

Postby gme9261236 » Thu May 15, 2008 6:27 pm

So heres the deal and we need your input. As some of you may have figured out this username is two people, my father (the man with the plan) and myself (the man with the typing ability.)

My father has been looking into insurance for the plane for both liability and hull and have run into some hiccups. Of the two companies we have called the first has said that my father who is lower TT and tailwheel time than I am will have to get an hour of dual before they will insure him in the plane and that I would not need any time in it to be insured. The other company has said that my father will need two hours of dual and that I would need 1 hour of dual. The second company also has said that the test pilot would not be able to be insured at all in the plane for the first flight. We do not know exactly which way to go because the closest highlander besides one on floats in maine is in NC and even then we are looking at quite a project to fly from New Hampshire to NC for the day to get one hour of dual. We can fly for free because we have continental pass benefits but that means we would have to fly from BOS to EWR and then to NC and then rent a car to get to the factory to hopefully get a ride. One of our options was that I would just go up with one of my friends who is a CFI in the plane uninsured for one hour just to get an hour of dual and then we could land and I could then go up with my father for two hours of dual since I still have a current CFI cert and that would cover those ends. The problem with that is that the airplane needs 40 hours solo so that would be difficult to do. My father spoke to Troy I think it was and was told that the FAA on occasion will grant an exception for a few hours to have two pilots in the plane providing you can justify it ie. one pilot is flying and the other is monitoring the engine instruments. I forgot to mention that the second company said my father would have to fly all of the 40 hours himself and no one else could fly.

We are not sure why we are getting the slight runaround, my father has around 100 hours with all of it in tailwheel and I have around 1800 hours with a few hundred in tailwheel and a few hundred of tailwheel dual given. I would think we would be candidates for insurance but who knows. I am an AOPA member and havent tried that yet but I figured we would try here first since this site posesses the varitable whos who of the highlander and LSA world.

Any ideas ladies and gents on who you use, which avenues you took and how you git r' done?

Thanks!

Shawn (chief in charge of typing duties)
Glenn (chief in charge of financial obligation)
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Postby Larry Tener » Thu May 15, 2008 8:11 pm

It is in type, not the exact aircraft. get with someone with a cub or a champ or chief.
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Postby gme9261236 » Thu May 15, 2008 8:16 pm

Thats what we asked about and they mentioned that it was in specific make and model which did not make sense to me either. Every one of my dads hours are in a J-3 cub and I have 200+ of J-3, Super Decathlon, Citabria, Extra 300 and Steerman. I would think that one of those would cover my end and my dad would be covered more than enough. Maybe we are not explaining it properly to the insurance companies  :roll:
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Postby DaveU » Thu May 15, 2008 11:03 pm

I had the same issues when I was trying to get insurance prior to the first flight.   I had arranged to fly a kitfox, 912uls, tailwheel, for 6 hours, got a BFR in the fox and thought I was good to go with about 45 hours in tailwheel aircraft.  The insurance company wanted the test pilot with 800 hours of tailwheel to get 2 hours of dual in make and model.  I was going to have to have 5 hours of dual.  So I let my CFI fly the first flight, then I got in and flew the 40 off, self insured.

I then had 40 hours in make and model and 85 hours of tail wheel time, and they were fine writing me at that point.  I took a big risk, but the deductible during phase I flight test is a percentage of the loss anyway.  I was just careful and stayed away from other aircraft.

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Postby gme9261236 » Thu May 15, 2008 11:28 pm

We were thinking of the same thing. Have a test pilot fly the first hour and then under the faa's little loophole have my friend (a cfi) and I go up together and he give me 1 hour of dual in the plane. I could then land and go up with my father still unninsured to this point and give him 1 hour of dual all the while he is acting PIC and I am "monitoring" the engine instruments. That would then allow us to hopefully be insurable so that we could both fly the 40 hours off together. We are trying to avoid having one of the two of us fly off the 40 hours as we want to share in that duty/joy. We are looking to split it up so that way between work it does not take us the whole summer to log 40 hours. I am thinking about calling AOPA tomorrow and see what they have to say as well. Thanks for your advice, it may be our only option as of now.

We are also looking at reducing the hull insurance from 60,000 (roughly $2,200/year) to closer to 20,000 since any damage totaling 60k we are probably not living to worry about anyway. With the 20,000 it should cover the most costly which would be a groundloop, wing drag, prop strike or basically anything where the prop touches the ground and requires a tear down rebuild situation. That should cut the yearly cost down quite a bit.
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loophole?

Postby KevinC » Fri May 16, 2008 9:29 am

Please pardon my ignorance - I've been nose in building for two years and lost practice in all things faa.  What loophole?

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Postby gme9261236 » Fri May 16, 2008 11:37 am

I havent officially researched it yet but my father said he spoke to someone at the factory and was told that under certain special circumstances you can have 2 in the plane during portions of the test phase. Supposedly 1 flying the plane and the other specifically monitoring the engine instruments and taking notes on the performance and flight characteristics. I believe it has to be justified as a matter of safety that one pilot simply flies and the other monitors. I have yet to call the local FSDO to find out actual facts.
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Postby Larry Tener » Fri May 16, 2008 1:54 pm

Did you look at the insurance the EAA offers? They were very competitive and insured mine from the first flight.
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Postby scubarider2 » Fri May 16, 2008 2:21 pm

ditto with EAA.
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Insurance

Postby Roger » Sat May 17, 2008 12:49 pm

I spoke with a EAA insurance rep. at Oskosh a couple of years ago about insuring my Highlander when it is ready to fly, and told them I was a fairly high time pilot with minimum tailwheel time. They quoted me $2400 for the first year and then $2200 a year after that. Said it wouldn't be a problem insuring. We didn't really get into specifics of time in model, but calling EAA and talking to their insurance people sure makes sense.
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Postby scubarider2 » Sat May 17, 2008 7:13 pm

You can get a quote on-line from EAA....just takes a couple weeks.  Fill in what you want and they send you a quote via email.
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