TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby gbt » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:14 pm

Checking to see how the progress is coming with those that have ordered the Viking. Looking seriously at the Viking at this point and would appreciate any info. Also would be interested in comments on the engine mount - it appears that the two mounts that attach to the top of the engine are not supported and the load and vibration will be transmitted to the mount on the firewall potenially cracking the weld at this due to the fulcrum? Thanks
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby bluemax » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:00 pm

I have a Viking engine ordered, and completely paid for including the shipping. I originally had an April delivery but asked them to postpone it to a point when they would be installing the new tubular intake manifold as a standard option. Jan told me that would be August 20, but I still do not have my engine. I think I will have it shortly, I told Jan I am not in a super hurry. I also purchased their pre-wired wiring harness.

Bob Johnson has his Viking installation completed and it has flown, but I have not seen any postings from him on his comments.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby wayira » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:21 pm

First flight of Bob Johnson's Viking powered Highlander. See Video for more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FUTP5TY ... r_embedded
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby SheepdogRD » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:00 pm

gbt wrote:. . . Also would be interested in comments on the engine mount - it appears that the two mounts that attach to the top of the engine are not supported and the load and vibration will be transmitted to the mount on the firewall potenially cracking the weld at this due to the fulcrum? Thanks

At Sun-n-Fun, I asked one of the Viking guys (not Jan) about the unsupported upper mount bars on the Highlander. I said I'd never seen cantilevered engine mounts before. He assured me that the engine casing acts as a leg between the mounts. I suggested that, since the mounts are in rubber, there's no rigid triangulation; that extra leg simply makes it a four-bar linkage, and so it can move. He assured me it would be fine. Since I'm not using the Viking engine and I'm not an engine mount specialist, I didn't pursue it. But I find that mount design odd and worrisome.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby gbt » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:25 am

As I found the Viking mount for the Highlander in question I email Jan directly at Viking engines. I asked if there was supporting documentation for the mount design and specifically about the unsupported upper mounts; Jan's reply was that there was none. I next asked for information on the mount so that I could make some calculations of the mount's integrity to satisfy my own curiosity. No information was provided. Jan repeatedly implied that since there are lots of engine mounts currently in use, both certified and uncertified using unsupported upper mounts the design is airworthy. I would be interested if anyone who has a Viking Highlander engine mount has done any calculations of the design that could be passed along? Thanks
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby rv8innc » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:49 pm

Just a note, It's public record, research the Eggenfellner Subaru judgements. Numerous people paid for but never received their engines, ECU, props etc, me being one of them. It took a lawyer and about $10,000 to get part of my money back.

There is no one who could have convinced me to believe I would not receive my engine. I followed the Subi progress for 4 years before I finally ordered my complete package. The problem was he had no ECU's or gear boxes and would not or could not order any.

:(
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby ShokieRV7A » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:46 pm

I will ad my two-cents here when it comes to people considering doing business with Viking. There are plenty of Subaru builders out there who abandoned the Subaru powerplant or their project altogether because of “customer service issues” stemming from Jan’s business practices.

I am one of those people. I am out $9,890.00 from my business dealing with Jan. He took the money and instead of buying parts for my purchase, used that money to purchase engine cores for other customers to fulfill orders. He admitted this several times in his Yahoo! group before I was banned from his group because I asked one too many times for my money back. By some estimates, over $200,000 was lost to Jan and his business practices. I’m curious as to where the money went.

There are scores of other builders out there with similar experiences. I have recently posted a website documenting everything because after #OSH13, I was sickened to see people in the Viking booth – knowing that at some time down the road, some or all of these people would befall the same fate.

Read the story, look at the supporting documents I have posted – decide for yourself.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby Ewalk02 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:07 pm

I made a decision a while back to go with the viking aircraft engine and so far I have been through a bit of a roller coaster ride. When I ordered the engine everything seemed to be on track but after a few production delays I started to get a little nervous about my purchase. I did finally receive a partially completed engine with a promise that my PSRU, radiator, prop, cowling and ecu were on the way. These seemed to keep getting pushed back as well but I did finally get everything except the cowling. For a while I was very frustrated with Jan but he did make good on his promise. After getting everything mounted and firing the engine up for the first time I have to say that I am very pleased with the end product although the ride to get there was a little bumpy.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby danerazz » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:46 pm

I am glad to see you got everything (except the cowl). I have been watching with great interest the progress of the Viking engine from it's inception. I will say it appears Jan and his "new" company (counting the subaru conversion as a totally separate entity) have come a long way, and will hopefully continue down the road they have been on. I have heard great reviews, and it appears he is selling quite a few of these engines. He seems to be doing a lot of work to make easy, well thought out installation packages for airframe specific applications. I have seen him have several delays with delivery, especially the first couple of batches which were delayed a long, LONG time. To me this is expected for a new product as they get suppliers and design issues worked out. I try not to be the first to get something like this, but somebody has to or nothing new would ever make it to market. From what I have seen you should be VERY happy with this engine once your plane is flying.

As for issues prior to Viking, I have read a lot about that too. I don't believe Jan ever had bad intent, I just don't think things were executed well or worked out the way he intended. Unfortunately I think he compounded the problems instead of minimizing them. I can only hope that he has the formula correct now and there will not be a repeat of that fiasco. Again, there are tons of kit and accessory manufacturers that had similar, or worse, fates, taking a lot more money from a lot more people who put that early faith in them. Every time this happens it makes it harder for some other new company to bring a product to market. I feel your pain for the loss of nearly $10,000, I am about to send about $20,000 to another small engine mfg. in another country, and while they are fairly well established, I still do so with great trepidation. I just hope I am not writing here a year from now how "you shouldn't trust #### company and don't send money to them." A huge problem with experimental aircraft is there are lots of new products, all of them are really expensive, and most of them require payment in full before you ever get to see a single part of that product.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby danerazz » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:59 pm

ShokieRV7A wrote:I will ad my two-cents here when it comes to people considering doing business with Viking. There are plenty of Subaru builders out there who abandoned the Subaru powerplant or their project altogether because of “customer service issues” stemming from Jan’s business practices.

I am one of those people. I am out $9,890.00 from my business dealing with Jan. He took the money and instead of buying parts for my purchase, used that money to purchase engine cores for other customers to fulfill orders. He admitted this several times in his Yahoo! group before I was banned from his group because I asked one too many times for my money back. By some estimates, over $200,000 was lost to Jan and his business practices. I’m curious as to where the money went.

There are scores of other builders out there with similar experiences. I have recently posted a website documenting everything because after #OSH13, I was sickened to see people in the Viking booth – knowing that at some time down the road, some or all of these people would befall the same fate.

Read the story, look at the supporting documents I have posted – decide for yourself.



Not to be a jerk, but I see this is your first and only post on here. So, you joined this forum just to badmouth a company? I appreciate the warning, but you are going out of your way to do so in a way that is slightly creepy. Also, if there are a lot of satisfied customers of Viking, not necessarily Jan, you doing harm to the company if it is living up to it's word is doing harm to all of the current Viking customers. You had an opportunity to talk to Jan in person at Oshkosh this year, did you? What was his response?
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby SheepdogRD » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:24 am

danerazz wrote:Not to be a jerk . . .
I don't think you're being a jerk, but I don't think ShokieRV7A is being a jerk either.

If his story is true, I reckon he has a right to squawk. Perhaps he's hoping that, if he squawks loudly enough, he'll get some money back. He may feel he's providing a public service message. He may be trying for revenge. He may just be expressing his anger and frustration.

If his story isn't true, Jan can sue him for libel.

Otherwise, ShokieRV7A provides a cautionary tale, and it's good for potential buyers to know some of the history behind the company. Like it or not, when they send a deposit check, they become unsecured creditors.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby danerazz » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:47 am

I didn't intend to say he was being a jerk, and I really do feel for him and his financial loss, not to mention the overall damage it does to the project and the dreams that go with it.

Unfortunately (for EVERYBODY) I also believe his story is 100% true. I am also one that usually gives people exactly one chance to prove they are worth trusting or not, and if that chance is blown it is unlikely that I will EVER trust that person. So I completely understand the sentiment. Please don't think I don't appreciate the word of caution as well.

I also hope that Viking as a company is bigger than one man, and hopefully the work and dedication of the employees will help ensure a good product and a good outcome for everybody. I do not think Jan ever set out with the intent of screwing a bunch of people, I think he just had execution problems that piled up until that is what happened. It would be really nice if it also allowed (though years late) refunds to be paid to those who are owed, but we all know how that goes. I just don't want to see another group (viking customers) hurt because of revenge from separate business dealings that happened several years ago (as separate as another company run by the same people can be).

Again, hopefully the formula is correct this time and things will go right and maybe even some previous wrongs will be made as good as they can be. There have been some things said about the manufacturer of my engine of choice, though other than some delivery delays most deal with their business practices. As much as I hate to say it, the business practices there are the same as the ones Just Aircraft has had that a few dealers have complained about, see Lynn Gardiner's last post...

The moral here is everyone is responsible for getting as much information as they can before dropping a lot of money on something. ShokieRV7A is pointing out an important piece of information that should be taken into consideration. We can help ourselves out by limiting what we purchase from a single source that cannot be duplicated elsewhere. I would be reluctant to buy a kit and an engine made by the same company (not many of those, but a few). I am buying an engine from one company, but if it falls through, other than being broke off my a$$ and not able to afford to replace it for a LONG time, I can just bolt up a different engine and add $20,000 to the completed cost of my plane (Yes, that will DEFINITELY hurt). I am getting all of the other firewall forward stuff from normal vendors so it can easily be replaced if need be. The propeller will come from another company, though I could order one from the engine mfg. (and I don't believe they actually make them in house, but I don't know that).
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby ShokieRV7A » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:58 pm

Yes. This was my first post here.

Yes. This is quite personal because as Dannerazz pointed out - it was a major reason the project (and my dreams) died. Not all of us have an extra $10,000 laying around to recover from something like this.

Believe me or don't believe me - that is entirely up to you. I am very clear that this is not an indictment of the engine or the package; and I am also careful to point out the separate entity that is Viking Aircraft. This is about the business practices of the person running the company.

My story is just one persons account. If other people want to take the step to make public their story, that is their choice. I refused to post anything about the performance, reliability, shipping delays, etc. because those are very subjective points that are tough to prove.

As for the accuracy of my information - I took a lot of time to research and vette the information I posted. I save every email I have ever received because of the business I am in and I made sure I did not post my opinion without stating it was "my opinion". Libel is anything damaging in print that is untrue. An absolute defense to libel is the truth - good, bad, or indifferent.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby ShokieRV7A » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:35 pm

danerazz wrote:You had an opportunity to talk to Jan in person at Oshkosh this year, did you? What was his response?


I didn't talk to Jan at Airventure 2013 or even enter his booth. I stayed well outside on the blacktop road because I did not want Jan making some accusation that I was trying to intimidate him or interfere with his business or his customers. Jan has thrown out the "victim card" anytime someone even remotely questions him about anything he perceives as negative - and that is over email or the Internet. I can only imagine his response if it were done in person.

And, No. I don't think you are being a jerk at all. I would question my motives too if I were on the outside seeing this.
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Re: TAKING THE PLUNGE . . . VIKING HF-110 ENGINE

Postby danerazz » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:07 pm

Yeah, after I wrote that I realized a personal confrontation without a third party mediator (ideally a lawyer) would probably be a bad idea.

I can monday morning quarterback all day long, but shouldn't. The situation is bad, there are a lot of details, and it is not a one-off occurrence. There is no denying that.

Again, I am truly sorry your situation turned out the way it did. I have heard of so many dealings in this hobby go south like that, and it usually involves tens of thousands of dollars when it does. Those are life changing sums for all but the very wealthy, which isn't me (or most of us). I am about to send almost $20,000 to a small company in Australia, and while I am pretty certain everything is good, I am terrified of the worst. It is not my place to give names or details, but I know there is at least one other person on this forum who has had issues with yet another engine supplier and that hurt the dream enough that the project stopped for quite some time. And it seemed to be more of an emotional impact.

I am trying to be optimistic for all future customers. So far it appears things are going well, and hopefully they will continue that way.
Dane

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