Cabin Heaters Anyone?

For general discussion of the Just Aircraft family of aircraft.
Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.

Moderator: scubarider2

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby bluemax » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:47 pm

I always thought that the bronze scrunchie pads were to muffle the sound of the exhaust? If you only put the bronze pad in the ducting leading to the cabin, it should not restrict the exhaust air from exiting the cowl through the bypass duct.
Max Rentz
Newark, Ohio

Highlander Extreme # 257
bluemax
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:54 pm
Location: Newark, Ohio

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Gil T » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:27 pm

Anything that is put in the scat tubing from the heater muff to the heater valve will restrict the free flow of air coming out of the muff which would increase the amount of heat retained in the muff. It would seem to me not a good idea if you want the amount of heat under the cowl kept to a minimum.

Gil T.
User avatar
Gil T
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: Quartzsite AZ

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby bluemax » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:53 am

Hey Gil-

What I meant to say is that there should be no restriction with ducting the heated air to the outside. . . as in NOT directing it into the cabin, if the scrunchie pad is ONLY in the ducting to the cabin. If the cabin heater is being used, then I would think like you do. . . that the air is restricted somewhat by the scrunchie, and the engine compartment would be warmer. But since it is likely very cold outside, maybe that's not a big deal?
Max Rentz
Newark, Ohio

Highlander Extreme # 257
bluemax
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:54 pm
Location: Newark, Ohio

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby SheepdogRD » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:59 am

I thought the objective in using the coarse steel wool was to increase the heated surface area over which the air flows, thus increasing heat transfer from the metal to the air.

I plan to put coarse stainless steel wool in the area between exhaust pipe and heater jacket, probably sourcing it here: http://www.briwax-online.com/GMTStainless.html. Yes, that material will slow the airflow some, but I expect it to increase the temperature of the air significantly.

If I was installing a liquid-cooled engine, I wouldn't even consider an exhaust heater; I'd run the coolant into the cockpit and pull heat from a small radiator or two. With an air-cooled engine, that isn't an option. :cry:
Richard Holtz
Highlander N7340Z -- Ms. Tonka -- in gestation

If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.
User avatar
SheepdogRD
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:41 pm
Location: West of Atlanta, GA

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Johnny C! » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:07 am

Gil,
What heater diverter boxes do
you have there? I like them.

God Bless America, everyone (9/11).

Thanks!

John
There are many things that happen really fast when you are
flying an airplane. There is no sense in rushing any of the others.

I would much rather be looking down at the runway, than up at it.

Duane Sorenson & Rick Norton Gone West 6/8/09. Godspeed
User avatar
Johnny C!
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:55 am
Location: Brevard, NC

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby BlueRidge » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Joel Milloway can be found on the Courier S7 Yahoo Group.

He is a custom Rans builder, he has developed a heater system using
the hot water flow from the radiator to heat the cabin.

He designed the heat output for Wyoming winters. Several Rans builders
have reported it works very well and is a simple system to install.
BlueRidge
New Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:52 am

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Gil T » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:17 pm

John

I got everything from Spruce except the muffs.

This is the list:
08-01311 (Heater Bypass Valve) 2
05-14200/300 (Button Type Dash Control) 2
05-14420 (Button Inserts) 2
05-029908 (SCAT Tubing) 4ft
With this and 4 hose clamps and some hardware store aluminum for the diffusers where the heat comes in you're in business.

I haven't put mine on for this winter yet as it's still over 100 degrees.

Gil T.
User avatar
Gil T
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: Quartzsite AZ

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Johnny C! » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:59 pm

Gil,
Thanks for the part numbers.
I was in process of making my
own aluminum diverters until
I read the write up about the
SS, so I'll have to see if I can
find some thin stainless.

Thanks again!

John
There are many things that happen really fast when you are
flying an airplane. There is no sense in rushing any of the others.

I would much rather be looking down at the runway, than up at it.

Duane Sorenson & Rick Norton Gone West 6/8/09. Godspeed
User avatar
Johnny C!
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:55 am
Location: Brevard, NC

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby SheepdogRD » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:22 pm

BlueRidge wrote:Joel Milloway can be found on the Courier S7 Yahoo Group.

He is a custom Rans builder, he has developed a heater system using
the hot water flow from the radiator to heat the cabin.

He designed the heat output for Wyoming winters. Several Rans builders
have reported it works very well and is a simple system to install.

Here's another way to contact Joel Milloway, and some comments on his system, quoting a March 6, 2011 post on http://www.skiplane.org:

"A local airplane builder and modifier has let me use his new heater valve on a trial basis, I've got about 7 hours on it now in varying conditions: level flight at 9 degrees airtemp, high power and high AOA in 30 degrees, high speed descent throttled back from 8500' to 5000', and through all these varying situations I was able to easily keep the temps where I wanted them.

It is a pretty simple device, but real well made and very light weight. It is "full port", meaning come summer no compromises in the original flow and cooling capacity. It simply allows you, via a cockpit mounted push/pull control to adjust the fluid flow before it goes through the radiator, (from ALL of it it to whatever fraction you want) instead it goes through a small heat exchanger in the cabin with a muffin fan behind it, thus killing 2 birds with one stone: extra cabin heat and stable engine temps! I am saving a fortune in duct tape, and not having to land just to take some off or put some on my radiator, my previous method of keeping the temps in the proper range. Another advantage, as you would expect, is greatly reduced time spent idling while the engine warms up.

Joel Milloway can be reached at [email protected] for more info."

Link to that quote: http://www.skiplane.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1299447099
Richard Holtz
Highlander N7340Z -- Ms. Tonka -- in gestation

If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.
User avatar
SheepdogRD
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:41 pm
Location: West of Atlanta, GA

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby wayira » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:23 pm

SheepdogRD wrote:
BlueRidge wrote:Joel Milloway can be found on the Courier S7 Yahoo Group.

He is a custom Rans builder, he has developed a heater system using
the hot water flow from the radiator to heat the cabin.

He designed the heat output for Wyoming winters. Several Rans builders
have reported it works very well and is a simple system to install.

Here's another way to contact Joel Milloway, and some comments on his system, quoting a March 6, 2011 post on http://www.skiplane.org:

"A local airplane builder and modifier has let me use his new heater valve on a trial basis, I've got about 7 hours on it now in varying conditions: level flight at 9 degrees airtemp, high power and high AOA in 30 degrees, high speed descent throttled back from 8500' to 5000', and through all these varying situations I was able to easily keep the temps where I wanted them.

It is a pretty simple device, but real well made and very light weight. It is "full port", meaning come summer no compromises in the original flow and cooling capacity. It simply allows you, via a cockpit mounted push/pull control to adjust the fluid flow before it goes through the radiator, (from ALL of it it to whatever fraction you want) instead it goes through a small heat exchanger in the cabin with a muffin fan behind it, thus killing 2 birds with one stone: extra cabin heat and stable engine temps! I am saving a fortune in duct tape, and not having to land just to take some off or put some on my radiator, my previous method of keeping the temps in the proper range. Another advantage, as you would expect, is greatly reduced time spent idling while the engine warms up.

Joel Milloway can be reached at [email protected] for more info."

Link to that quote: http://www.skiplane.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1299447099

And, here is another way to contact Joel Milloway, his web site: http://millowaycomposites.com/
He also has an interesting 3.5 gal. header tank (ethanol proof).
wayira
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:44 pm
Location: Hillsboro, Or.

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Johnny C! » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:54 pm

Johnny C! wrote:Gil,
Thanks for the part numbers.
I was in process of making my
own aluminum diverters until
I read the write up about the
SS, so I'll have to see if I can
find some thin stainless.

Thanks again!

John


Will .018" thick stainless
be OK for this? I found
6" x 12" sheets at Grainger
for $10 each.

Thanks again!

John
There are many things that happen really fast when you are
flying an airplane. There is no sense in rushing any of the others.

I would much rather be looking down at the runway, than up at it.

Duane Sorenson & Rick Norton Gone West 6/8/09. Godspeed
User avatar
Johnny C!
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:55 am
Location: Brevard, NC

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Gil T » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:25 pm

Johnny C! wrote:
Johnny C! wrote:Gil,
Thanks for the part numbers.
I was in process of making my
own aluminum diverters until
I read the write up about the
SS, so I'll have to see if I can
find some thin stainless.

Thanks again!

John


Will .018" thick stainless
be OK for this? I found
6" x 12" sheets at Grainger
for $10 each.

Thanks again!

John



John

I don't know the thickness of the aluminum I used. I would say to just make sure its thin enough so that when you try to put your foot through the firewall after making a spectacular arrival in a 15 knot crosswind that it has some flex to it. I put mine in to keep the heat from blowing directly on the foot just behind the heater inlet and its there just to keep my foot from cooking. So strength wasn't a factor with it.

I don't know how far along you are with your project but keep in mind what and where you're attaching things on the front and back side of the firewall so you have sufficient room for the hardware. I lucked out since I put the heaters in a couple years after the aircraft was completed and just had enough room to get a pretty clean install.

Gil T.
User avatar
Gil T
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: Quartzsite AZ

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Johnny C! » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:10 pm

Gil T wrote:
Johnny C! wrote:
Johnny C! wrote:Gil,
Thanks for the part numbers.
I was in process of making my
own aluminum diverters until
I read the write up about the
SS, so I'll have to see if I can
find some thin stainless.

Thanks again!

John


Will .018" thick stainless
be OK for this? I found
6" x 12" sheets at Grainger
for $10 each.

Thanks again!

John



John

I don't know the thickness of the aluminum I used. I would say to just make sure its thin enough so that when you try to put your foot through the firewall after making a spectacular arrival in a 15 knot crosswind that it has some flex to it. I put mine in to keep the heat from blowing directly on the foot just behind the heater inlet and its there just to keep my foot from cooking. So strength wasn't a factor with it.

I don't know how far along you are with your project but keep in mind what and where you're attaching things on the front and back side of the firewall so you have sufficient room for the hardware. I lucked out since I put the heaters in a couple years after the aircraft was completed and just had enough room to get a pretty clean install.

Gil T.


Gil,
I was asking about the SS sheet for the
shuttle boxes, not the diffusers.

John
There are many things that happen really fast when you are
flying an airplane. There is no sense in rushing any of the others.

I would much rather be looking down at the runway, than up at it.

Duane Sorenson & Rick Norton Gone West 6/8/09. Godspeed
User avatar
Johnny C!
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:55 am
Location: Brevard, NC

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Gil T » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:53 pm

John

I would not want to guess the thickness of the material. If I were fabricating it myself (which I doubt I have the skill to do) I would have to use the TLAR method.

Gil T.
User avatar
Gil T
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: Quartzsite AZ

Re: Cabin Heaters Anyone?

Postby Johnny C! » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:47 am

I did the box & door swing layout
yesterday in a 3D modeling class
while they were getting the noobs
up to speed. I'll mark it up & cut
it out with my band saw, and do the
bending at work on our lab press.
Just the box, the door/flap, and the
actuator arm to make. I'll cut the
correct opening in the firewall,
add the door over that & rivet
on the box. It will save me at
least $200 and add to the
educational factor!

John
There are many things that happen really fast when you are
flying an airplane. There is no sense in rushing any of the others.

I would much rather be looking down at the runway, than up at it.

Duane Sorenson & Rick Norton Gone West 6/8/09. Godspeed
User avatar
Johnny C!
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:55 am
Location: Brevard, NC

PreviousNext

Return to Just Aircraft