Wild West Aircraft

For general discussion of the Just Aircraft family of aircraft.
Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.
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Clark in AZ
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Location: Cave Creek, AZ

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by Clark in AZ »

Awesome Steve, congratulations on the win! I'm sure someone got some video?

Clark
Building SuperSTOL Kit 512
Cave Creek, AZ
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marl59
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Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by marl59 »

HelloSteve,
Congrats on the win! I would have loved to attend but I was up in your beautiful state hunting elk at that time. I am definitely in for a motor mount and exhaust from you to retrofit the Yamaha for my Highlander, your original Yee Haw. The 912 ULS still runs well but I'm looking to replace it and because of your hard work, R&D to make it work I'm ready to tackle the job. The big question I have is, were you able to utilize an "off the shelf" front cowling, like mine, or did you have to make your own? I suspect the latter. If so, could you also provide that part? Thanks much.

Steve Marlin
Den
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Location: Arizona

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by Den »

Got to see Steve and Teal at Copperstate. Hee Haw 5 looks pretty awesome.
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john2
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Location: Lucedale, Ms.

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by john2 »

marl59 wrote:HelloSteve,
The big question I have is, were you able to utilize an "off the shelf" front cowling, like mine, or did you have to make your own? I suspect the latter. If so, could you also provide that part? Thanks much.

Steve Marlin
Steve,
I asked him the same question in a PM and he responded that he used the Just Aircraft 914 cowling.
Maybe we can get a group order on the motor mount and exhaust and get a discount :D as I'm interested too if I do another project.
Take Care,
John Cooley
Kit #265 converted to SuperSTOL
N265JC reserved
Clark in AZ
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Cave Creek, AZ

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by Clark in AZ »

Finally got to meet Steve and see his Highlander in person at Copperstate. Here is a small video of them in action...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1vYDraTQUI

Clark
Building SuperSTOL Kit 512
Cave Creek, AZ
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BDA
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:25 am
Location: Kenai Alaska

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by BDA »

Hey Steve,
Have you looked at the new Yamaha MTX turbo motor? (998T Genesis)
throttle body fuel injection AND Turbo
180-200 hp

Just wondering if your gearbox mount will bolt up?
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
Clark in AZ
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Cave Creek, AZ

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by Clark in AZ »

I'm sure he'll chime in here once he gets back home. We discussed the 998 turbo. He is aware of it and I'm sure will be taking a closer look at it soon. That is the motor I plan to use once I get my kit.

Clark
Building SuperSTOL Kit 512
Cave Creek, AZ
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BDA
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Location: Kenai Alaska

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by BDA »

Yes if the reliability proves to be as good as they're other motors - I will install one as well.

I don't know exact weight on this motor but assuming it is 20# heavier with the turbo, it would still be much lighter than the Titan 0-340 180hp, and have much more torque/ thrust.

This engine could be a big deal in the experimental aviation world.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
Clark in AZ
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Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Cave Creek, AZ

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by Clark in AZ »

I've been told the 998 turbo is the same weight as the RX1/Apex motors. The 998 is a 3 cylinder motor so minus the extra piston, block, and carbs, this offsets the fuel injection and turbo assemblies. I've also been told that the 998 uses the same motor mount as the RX1/Apex. So, it should be about ~80lbs lighter than the Titan 180. :mrgreen:

Hopefully all this info is correct. :shock: I'm sure we'll know soon enough...

Clark
Building SuperSTOL Kit 512
Cave Creek, AZ
duc900mhr
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:57 pm

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by duc900mhr »

Yamaha Snowmobile Engines - I did some research on that too :)

Major difference is the number of cylinder (4cyl RX1 & Apex, 3cyl for the Genesis), excellent closer description here: http://global.yamaha-motor.com/business ... ature_002/

4 Cylinder
RX1: Model year 2002 - 2005, 140hp, carburetor, 5 valve per cyl, the engine weight is 128 lbs bare. they are 140 lbs with carbs, Rotax gearbox and adapter

Apex: 2006 - today, 150+ hp, EFI, all the nice electronic goodies incl. Ignition retarder for use with low octane fuel, weight around 120lbs, all in all 10# less than the RX1

Teal Jenkins built an adapter for the Rotax ‘C’ gearbox on the 4 cylinder
http://www.trikepilot.com/forum/topic/1091

And it looks it’s not so easy for the 3 cyl…
http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php? ... 1-engines/
Teal Jenkins: The reason for using the RX-1 for me was that it has a output shafts drive cover that could be removed and directly replaced by my replacement adapter cover so it is a real clean conversion. It is the same weight as the 3 cyl. Or within a couple pounds because the 4 cyl. Has a lighter crank shaft and has no counter balance shaft. It runs really smooth. The 3 cyl does not have any good provisions for mounting a gearbox and after you add mounting plates and hardware it will definetly be heavier than the rx1. Plus the RX1 has 20 more hp.

3 Cylinder
Genesis: Redesigned from the FJR1300 motorcycle engine with now only 3 cyl, 1st gen 973ccm and 120hp, 2nd gen 1,049ccm and 135hp, EFI, 4 valve per cyl, great torque and according the forums great reliability (like the RX1/Apex), weight 120#

Genesis Turbo: New introduction for 2017, 998ccm, 180+hp, weight unknown (my guess 140 - 150#)

Closer Description: https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/2017- ... maha-power
Video: https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/trail ... ideos/1218
Pre Production: http://www.amsnow.com/news/dyno-tests/2 ... -dyno-test


It’s going to be an interesting 2017!!!
duc900mhr
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by duc900mhr »

...and some more technical information about the Genesis Turbo - indeed a very interesting package, but time will tell....

http://snowgoer.com/latest-news/qa-yama ... 998-turbo/
dkshow
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Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:19 pm
Location: Anchorage, AK

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by dkshow »

Hey guys,

I just bought my first RX1 which we'll be playing with here in the next little while. Looking forward to the learning curve with the engine. I sort of feel the same way about the engine as some of you, this thing could be pretty amazing if we can figure out some of the details and simplify it for our use. From what I've read so far it looks like the carbureted 998 (RX1) is a bit easier to work with and Teal and some others have already developed adaptors for the Rotax C gearbox. The EFI 998 Apex has an incredible history of being nearly bullet proof, but harder to work out the electronic bugs from what I hear. The EFI engine is easier to turbo from what I've heard. I've heard of guys pushing the EFI engine to 600-700hp, it's strong.

Then there's the 2017 998 3 cylinder turbo. I spent way to much time at my Yamaha dealer here in ANC last weekend looking at that motor. They advertise it as 180 hp but most guys are seeing 205-220 from that engine without any tweaks. The guy at the dealership told me as close as he could tell, the new engine weighs 115-120. I'm not sure how accurate that is. It certainly looks smaller than my RX1 engine, my guess is, it's still lighter than the RX1 even with the turbo etc.

Now we just need two smart guys. One to simplify the electronics and one to develop an adaptor/gearbox that can handle 250hp. I personally like the idea of using these higher tech engines. I'm sure it will be a challenge but the payoff could be pretty amazing.

My 2 cents.
Keith Showalter
More Photos at www.keithshowalter.com
Anchorage, Alaska Superstol N445K
Built in NC with Rob Pedersen, Plane Fun Aircraft
duc900mhr
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by duc900mhr »

The reason that most guys are seeing 205-220hp is because Yamaha claims 'a minimum of 180hp up to 10,000ft' :lol:

I have no idea if the 'C' gearbox will go up that high.....Buy the cheapest 2017 Yamaha Sidewinder Snowmobile (MSRP $15k), rip out all engine & electronic parts, and sell the chassis for $$$ - if I could get engine + adapter + gearbox for $12-13k that would be an amazing deal for 180+hp!
Last edited by duc900mhr on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dkshow
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Location: Anchorage, AK

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by dkshow »

duc900mhr wrote:The reason that most guys are seeing 205-220hp is because Yamaha claims 'a minimum of 180hp up to 10,000ft' :lol:

I have no idea if the 'C' gearbox will go up that high.....Buy the cheapest 2017 Yamaha Sidewinder Snowmobile (MSRP $15k), rip out all engine & electronic parts, and sell the chassis for $$$ - if I could get engine + adapter + gearbox for $12-13k that would be an amazing deal for 180hp!

Not to mention you'd have one of the highest tech engines out there. It's got a pretty advanced brain, I was very impressed. It's also slightly scary to think how easy it would be to boost it from 200 up to 250-280 with some very easy minor changes. I'm not sure I personally want to be the guy who finds out where the C gearbox fails but I had the same question... how much will it take? At what point does the gearbox leave the front of the engine when you're pulling 250hp with that little thing?
Keith Showalter
More Photos at www.keithshowalter.com
Anchorage, Alaska Superstol N445K
Built in NC with Rob Pedersen, Plane Fun Aircraft
Clark in AZ
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Cave Creek, AZ

Re: Wild West Aircraft

Post by Clark in AZ »

duc900mhr wrote:...Buy the cheapest 2017 Yamaha Sidewinder Snowmobile (MSRP $15k), rip out all engine & electronic parts, and sell the chassis for $$$,,,
That's exactly what I'm going to do...

Clark
Building SuperSTOL Kit 512
Cave Creek, AZ
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