Wild West Aircraft

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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby taildrgfun » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:45 pm

It took me a while but I finally got the wiring harness figured out for this fuel injected Yamaha. Should have a gearbox within a month if all goes well. I built a test stand so I can actually run the engine and try it all out before even putting it on my airplane. I have 140 some hours on the carbureted Yamaha now and I sure like it a lot but I think I will like the injected motor even better.
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby MN Snowy1 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:38 pm

Getting the Apex (EFI) motor adapted will open a ton of possibilities! Thanks for continuing to move things forward Steve!

Where is your gearbox coming from?
KITFOX 5 (YAMAHA GENESIS RX-1), Full Lotus Floats
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby taildrgfun » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:38 pm

If you ever flew with one of these Yamaha engines you would easily understand why I am putting so much effort into this. In a way it is kind of crazy how much time and effort I have invested in this Yamaha thing but they just perform so well, and I have heard so many times from snowmobile guys that have run these engines about how tough and reliable they are that I think it's going to all be worth it. Actually I think it is already worth it!
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby moving2time » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:40 pm

Steve, Regarding the wiring issue with the Apex motor. There is obviously a computer control module that manages the fuel injection and the electronic ignition and probably takes in all kinds of readings from the engine, air pressure, humidity?, OAT, and probably other readings that I am not even aware of as the control module is constantly adjusting the fuel and air mixture to the engine among other things. Is the work that you are trying to resolve actually re-wiring or is it more re-programing the control unit for flight. Clearly there are all kinds of parameters that the control module calculates to fine tune the performance of the APEX engine, I guess I am not sure what needs to change. Seems like the engine and controls unit would be a self contained assembly? The Mohawk Air guy explained in several of his posts that the wiring on the APEX engine is really very complicated to re-work. Interested in finding out what is so complicated I have been looking over anything I can find that is related and I can't really find a valuable explanation of what is involved and why. It is really kind of frustrating. The internet is not as useful as it is made out to be. Yamaha has a nice article that explains the evolution of their 4-Stroke Snowmobile engine culminating in the APEX engine but nothing that would hint at what would need to be re-engineered to adapt it for use as an aircraft engine. Of course Yamaha is not going to write about how to adapt the engine for aircraft use but what is the challenge? The computer already adjusts for the environmental conditions as the engine changes altitude, heats, cools, and senses changes in humidity and air temperature and pressure. It changes the timing, fuel and air metering based on RPM and all of the environmental conditions. What is different operating as an aircraft engine? Hopefully some of the other readers of this thread can chime in on these questions so that you don't need to spend all your time typing out the basics. I'd rather see you finish your creation and post video of your testing. I can wait till then. The APEX is way more available compared to the RX-1. Your efforts are going to make a real impact in the alternative aircraft engine world. Looking forward to seeing some of your testing and actual flight reports. Sorry about this long winded post. It's been a long winter. Wish I could contribute technically. Go Steve Go! Joe B
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby Winston » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:09 pm

Steve

You might want to talk to these guys: http://sdsefi.com/aircraft.html

Their units are totally programmable and they are extremely helpful. They understand aircraft applications and fly their own products. If you give them a call they will be happy to talk to you about your project.

Good luck,

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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby moving2time » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:43 pm

Winston, that was an excellent link. Thank you. I will give them a call. They can probably school me on the basics. From reading the literature on their web site it looks like the biggest modification from auto to aircraft is that the wiring loom is not designed to work with what is typically required for an aircraft such as passing back and forth through the fire wall, things like that. I will definitely give them a call. There is so much to learn. I love it! Thanks. Joe B
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby Winston » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:25 pm

Joe

Glad it was helpful. A number of years ago, before I built my Highlander, I built a 701 and used the SDS system to control a 4 cylinder Suzuki car engine. I flew this for nearly 500 hours before selling it. To me the advantage of a programmable system like the SDS is that you can program timing and injector values that give the optimum stoichiometric ratio rather than relying on a factory ECU that is likely optimized for fuel efficiency and minimum emissions. I used the SDS stoichiometric ratio meter connected to an O2 sensor. The mixture knob also lets you lean while reading the actual mixture ratio on the meter. If you hook the plane to a game scale, you can program for maximum thrust at any RPM while the engine is running.

The SDS manual is available on their website and when you call them you are as likely as not to get the owner, Ross Farnham (who built the RV), who is very helpful. If I can help, let me know.

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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby pavebart » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:43 pm

A friend and I have been investigating the Yamaha Genesis and it looks like the snowmobile motor-heads may have solved that 150-199hp sweet spot. In doing research we found several sites that address changing the "MAP" for the ECU on the Yamaha motor, One claims to allow 4 "MAPs" on a single. Apparently you can select them on the fly from the cockpit. Links follow:

http://bikemanperformance.com/bmp-ecu-r ... inder.html

https://www.speedwerxstore.com/index.ph ... ist&c=1049
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby BDA » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:43 pm

Steve,
How many hours on the fuel injected engine?

Is it on the plane yet?
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby taildrgfun » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:26 pm

Still running the carbureted engine, I have 150 some hours on it now. I have the injected engine ready to go except that I am still waiting on the gearbox adapter. It's been delayed multiple times but I think it really is about to happen.
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby Clark in AZ » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:37 pm

Hey Steve, what gearbox are you using on the APEX?

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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby taildrgfun » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:20 pm

To begin with it is going to have a Rotax C gear box. Greg is working on getting them set up with a different gearbox that is a little heavier duty
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby BDA » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:50 pm

Is that the SPG-3 or 4?

What kind of hp will it really handle?

Or better yet how big of a prop?
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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby Clark in AZ » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:18 pm

taildrgfun wrote:To begin with it is going to have a Rotax C gear box. Greg is working on getting them set up with a different gearbox that is a little heavier duty


Thanks Steve, I know you're ready to get it finished. Can't wait to hear the flight report...

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Re: Wild West Aircraft

Postby taildrgfun » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:41 pm

Hello everyone, I've been pretty busy and just realized I haven't posted anything on here for a while.
Joe, on the wiring harness there are a lot of things to eliminate like thumb warmers and handwarmers and tail light and back up beeper and things like that. There are also safety things that need to be bypassed or fixed so that they don't make the engine go into any kind of limp mode. You have to figure out how to tie it in to the rest of the aircraft electrical system. What kind of back up systems are going to be designed into it such as dual batteries? Some of the existing wires need changed as far as just the length of them. Where is the ECU, the voltage regulator, the starter solenoid etc. going to be mounted and what do the wires need to reach these things.

I still have the Apex motor on my test stand and I still want to get some more time on it with the complete set up with the gearbox and propeller for quite a few hours before I actually put it in my airplane.
In the meantime I am still running my RX-1 carbureted Yamaha engine in my latest Highlander and I am really liking it a lot! I have 180 hours on it now and the only problem I have had is about 80 hours back I did lose a bearing in my gearbox. I had changed the gears and I don't know if I goofed up something that caused the bearing to fail or what exactly happened but I put a new gearbox on it and it has been working perfectly since then.
I like it so much that I have sold my Rotax HLDR and just kept my Yamaha Hldr.

I have run the Apex enough to verify that it does make even more power and more thrust than the RX-1. They both make more power and thrust than a 912 Rotax with a big bore kit and 40 hp Nitrous boost!

I did a leak down test on my Apex engine on the test stand a couple weeks ago and it was perfect, 80/80 on all cylinders! I have never ever checked a Rotax that was so perfect as this.

If any of you are tired of Rotax prices and weak performance give me a call.
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