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Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:20 pm
by Fresnoredneck
Hi Gil T

Drooping aileron cables don't look so good I would agree, but the whole directional stability thing isn't to do with drooping aileron cables, it is about the natural ability for the aircraft to try to get itself in order if the controls are disturbed. I agree that people should fly the aircraft and that means using the rudder pedals, but a naturally unstable aircraft in different axis can be a real pain and high cockpit workload at times when you don't need it. Certainly now I have got more time in my Escapade the area I find uncomfortable is with regard to the directional stability thing, unless you really concentrate and be real accurate on the pedals the slip ball just will not stay in the middle, the slightest lapse in concentration and it's hard off to the left or right, on such a great aircraft that seems kinda strange. What do you have to do to keep the slip ball well centered?? Would appreciate your feedback.

Rich

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:49 pm
by User GDS
I can push my rudder to the floor, yaw way over, let up, and the plane will return to the original flight orientation. No bungees or springs are attached to the system.

I had an RV and like familyflyer said, the rudder system is the same, RVs have no return springs to center the rudder pedals. On the ground it seemed loose and strange, in the air it doesn't make any difference.

Certified planes trim up and fly straight, nice and stable. Stall it, let go, it recovers after a few oscillations. hands off, go in the clouds and monitor the flight. aka boring...

My RV12 and the Highlander are unstable. Drive them like a car, constant corrections, constant attention to the job at hand. Stall it, let go, you only have minutes before you will hit the ground. aka nimble and fun...

Try taking those bungees off and see if you still have the problem.

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:08 pm
by Gil T
Rich and Gary

As far as the Highlander being stable, consider the fact that it's a very short coupled airplane and as such any upset from level requires effort to get it back where you want it. In smooth air I rarely do anything other than a tap on the rudder pedals. But in bumpy air it's constant corrections. The Highlander has a low wing loading and short fuselage so a little yawing is expected. That's why someone with little experience that get's checked out in a J-3 cub and thinks the're well qualified for a Highlander will have a surprise coming. I like to use the J-3 for an example because it's such a easy and forgiving airplane. Those longer fuselages on things like the Citabria etc. can make directional control much different in the air and on the ground. And heavier weight means a little more inertia to keep things going straight. An autopilot in a Highlander if you do a lot of flying in high density areas or even long cross countries can lower your work load and raise your safety level when you're in bumpy air. That's not an item for a lazy pilot, it's an item for safety if your circumstances can use it.

Gil T

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:42 pm
by EscapadeLarry0031
Maybe I'm missing something here - the discussion seems to be talking about the escapade and the highlander at the same time, and while their fuselage may be the same, their tail feathers are distinctly different. I'm at 18 hours in my phase I fly off with an escapade and I have trouble keeping the ball centered under all flight conditions. Seems like most of the time I'm almost standing on right rudder! Also, and a different problem I think, is it has a heavy left wing. And supposedly the wings were fitted to the fuselage at the factory. It's a work in progress at this point.

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 11:04 pm
by SheepdogRD

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:33 am
by scubarider2
Not that I am any genuis or consider myself an experienced plane builder but my plane with feet and hands off will fly itself with bubble in the middle. I have an Escapade with Highlander wings. I did have to really work the rudder and wing trim to get it just right but once I did all is good in the world. 8)
Dennis

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:59 pm
by Familyflyer
On the SuperSTOL it will fly hands off all day, ball centered wings level in smooth air. You can start and level a turn with rudder only and with the ball obviously coming out of center to level the wings and return to center with help after leveling the wings. If you start a turn and let go the controls it will not come back to level flight without control input. The turn will continue into a spiral per say. Much like a low wing. When giving rudder input and keeping wings level the ball will not come back to center on its own when the rudder is released. It is not a rudder issue that you are seeing but more from how short coupled the airplane is. Because it is so short it almost wants to continue to fly "sideways", staying close to the position you last had it. But that is what a rudder is for. Push the peddle as required. :D Throw a bunch of turbulence in and start stirring soup and dancing the peddles for the entire flight.

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 11:30 am
by kenryan
Troy, do you have or do you recommend springs or bungees on the rudder system?

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:29 pm
by rmullins
EscapadeLarry0031 wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here - the discussion seems to be talking about the escapade and the highlander at the same time, and while their fuselage may be the same, their tail feathers are distinctly different. I'm at 18 hours in my phase I fly off with an escapade and I have trouble keeping the ball centered under all flight conditions. Seems like most of the time I'm almost standing on right rudder! Also, and a different problem I think, is it has a heavy left wing. And supposedly the wings were fitted to the fuselage at the factory. It's a work in progress at this point.


Sounds like they are related. Usually you adjust for a heavy wing with the adjustable link on the end of the wing strut. Stepping on right rudder would bring the plane back, you wouldn't be very coordinated, but it wouldn't be turning

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:29 pm
by Familyflyer
kenryan wrote:Troy, do you have or do you recommend springs or bungees on the rudder system?


I do not have springs on my SS or RV. I see no reason why one would need them. You trim the rudder for cruise and it should stay that way. Slack or tight cables would not change where the rudder is.

Re: Rudder bungees and Highlander tail

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:38 pm
by danerazz
I messed around with the rudder torsion springs, and unless you have a VERY smooth rudder pedal bar I needed a 1/8" spring wire which is pretty strong. After messing around with it I just don't see a real need for them. My only concern would be a slack cable in the tail getting hooked on something.