Which Prop

For general discussion of the Just Aircraft family of aircraft.
Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.

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Which Prop

Postby jjacky » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:42 pm

Ok there is a bewildering array of props out there...We have Catto, Kiev, Sensenich, Warp drive, etc etc. I need to pick one. It needs to be a ground adjustable for a Highlander in the tricycle configuration but going to taildragger later. It will spend most of its time on as a cruiser on 1500 ft grass fields but occasionally need to be adjusted for max Vy .... Help!!!
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Re: Which Prop

Postby levyland » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:35 am

I have had a Whirlwind terrible all around performance, A Catto excellent climb terrible cruise, and I have Prince currently being built. Steve Henry really likes his Prince over all best of the props.
At this stage a Kiev 293 or Prince
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Re: Which Prop

Postby Johnny C! » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:35 pm

Check prices on the Ivo's.

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Re: Which Prop

Postby scubarider2 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:48 pm

I have struggled with this question myself. I currently fly the three blade 70" Warp Drive. It is the most durable blade out there. However not sure about its cruise compared to others. I was really interested in the Sensenich new 3-blade but can't get anyone to tell me if it is worth the large price tag. I would love to get a prop that would give me about another 5-10mph on cruise and then it may be worth the price. I have already done everything possible to clean up the plane even with wheel pants. :D
Would love to hear some comparisons...
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Re: Which Prop

Postby gkremers » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:56 pm

If enough people respond your sure to get conflicting info. I'm running the Whirlwind 3 blade ground adjustable on a standard Highlander. Only have 50 hours on the plane but so far very happy with it. Smooth, beautiful finish on both the blades and hub. The spinner fits perfectly. I live in Michigan so my mission is not ultra short take offs. It easily gets to 105 or better (yes....checked via GPS triangle courses several times). I'm sure all props have pros and cons. So far I'm a very happy customer.

Gary
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Re: Which Prop

Postby av8rps » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:01 am

My experience with the Sensenich 2 blade ground adjustable 70 inch has been very positive. But I did originally find that one blade was off by more than a degree and a a half compared to the other. Once I took the time to use an electronic angle finder (vs the stupid know in the prop hub) to make sure both blades are running with the same pitch, my prop came to life.

Ironically I just spoke with someone that has a 3 blade Sensenich that is overall disapppointed with its performance. So I asked him to check to see if his blades were off, and sure enough, they were. And more than by a degree and a half. I haven't heard back from him yet, but I do expect his prop efficiency will dramatically improve.
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Re: Which Prop

Postby scubarider2 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:21 am

That is strange because that is suppose to be one of the selling points of the 3-blade Sensenich is the "clicks" and they all get pitched the same. hmmmm
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Re: Which Prop

Postby av8rps » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:50 pm

Adjusting by "clicks" is a great marketing strategy. But Sensenich also had the idea of using a knob in the middle of their 2 blade prop to adjust it because it supposedly was so easy to do. However, when you look closely at how that knob and cam works when adjusting the prop, I'd say you have a 90%+ chance of not having the prop blades be adjusted the same. So if by any chance they used the same engineer (and marketing person) to create their "pin click system" for adjusting their 3 blade prop, it probably won't work any better.

BUT, with that said, I still think the composite Sensenich props are really nice props. The workmanship on a 3 blade I just purchased used is stunning. A friend bought the prop for his RV12 project as he said all the RV12 guys rave about that prop. So when he decided he was selling the project and was parting some things out, I jumped on the prop. I haven't even tried it yet, but one day might give it a try on my Kitfox to see how it does compared to my IVO. It's only a 70 inch, so I would expect it to be a really good cruise prop. But for STOL I'd probably prefer a longer blade. Although I have to admit my 2 blade 70 inch Sensenich gives my Highlander a great climb rate and good cruise, so maybe 70 inch is a good length??

If I were Sensenich I would give up on all those rinky dink "claimed" easy adjust systems with knobs, cams, or pins and just send out each prop with a $30 Harbor Freight electronic angle gauge and a simple instruction page how to accurately adjust blades. Their owners would be a lot happier with their props I'm convinced.

But any of us that use ground adjustable props could benefit from using an electronic angle gauge (aka smart level) when adjusting our props. Prop blades need to be set exactly the same pitch if they are going to be efficient imho.
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Re: Which Prop

Postby Jack L » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:31 pm

When Paul and I were talking a few days ago I mentioned to him that I was not to happy with the overall performance of my Sensenich 3 blade 72" prop. I mentioned that I spoke with a customer support rep at Rotax who told me to try setting the pitch of the prop with an electronic protractor rather than using the alignment pins. He told me that he saw a propeller that was 4 degrees out between blades after using the Sensenich pins. Using a contour gauge he profiled the propeller blade and made this jig;

IMG_2636.JPG


I tried the same on my propeller and found one blade out by 1 degree and another by 1.8 degrees. I reset the pitch and now all blades are within .1 degrees. You can also download Apps like the iHandy Level on your smart phone and use it as your protractor. Both Paul and the Rotax Rep told me that the propeller performance improved significantly when the blades were set with the electronic protractor so I am hoping that I will experience the same. My aircraft is at my home now so I have to wait for my runway (lake) to freeze before I can test it.

Like Paul I am very impressed with the quality and construction of the Sensenich propeller and did not want to give up on it. I will post results for those interested once the lake freezes.

Jack
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Re: Which Prop

Postby xpflyr » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:51 pm

I have tried many a prop but none have had the " oh man, this is the one " feeling, as the Prince P Tip! You do need a long wait time. Double any time Lonnie tells you. He is a great airplane, prop, man, but falls short on delivery times. Thou he always makes up for it. Once I sent him a prop to be re-pitched and he took so long and because I never complained to him, he sent me a brand new prop!
The prop works like this. It's in a corse pitch and then as you give it rpm's for take off, actually flattens out to fine pitch delivering an automatic adjustable pitch, higher rpm's at take-off and higher pitch at cruse..
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Re: Which Prop

Postby av8rps » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:07 pm

I was too lazy to make a nice contoured wood prop jig so I just put my Cen-Tech Electronic Angle Gauge ($30 Harbor Freight) flat against the back of the blades (same distance from the hub so I knew it was in the exact same place for each measurement) and it worked just great.

However, if you have a blade that doesn't have a flat surface to set the gauge on you will probably need to build yourself a nice jig like Jaque did :P .

Paul
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Re: Which Prop

Postby av8rps » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:13 pm

Dennis,

How fast will your Highlander go at 5500 rpm with the Warp?

I'm curious as I have a bunch of friends that fly Rans floatplanes and they seem to scoot right along with those props. (of course "scooting right along" is a relative term when flying floats :mrgreen: - but let's just say they can fly as fast as 100 mph on floats with a 912s and their Warp prop).

In the Kitfox world, the prop that everyone else struggles to keep up with is the IVO. But typically that means in flight adjustable. So if you want to stay LSA compliant you can't go that route. However, even IVO ground adjust props are faster than most others as they are designed to flex enough to twist more pitch into the prop the faster you go. A friend with a Highlander on amphib floats and a 912s could cruise at 100 mph all day long using a 72 inch 3 blade IVO medium ground adjust. IVO has a 30 day money back guarantee program if you want to try one of theirs. They're not the best looking prop in my opinion, but they do work. I have 350 hours plus on an IVO ultralight IFA version on my 80 hp Kitfox amphib, and aside from the stainless tape needing occasional replacement, it is an awesome propellor. Wide open it will go 125 mph (verified many times). I can pass my buddies Rans floatplanes like they are standing still 8)

Paul

scubarider2 wrote:I have struggled with this question myself. I currently fly the three blade 70" Warp Drive. It is the most durable blade out there. However not sure about its cruise compared to others. I was really interested in the Sensenich new 3-blade but can't get anyone to tell me if it is worth the large price tag. I would love to get a prop that would give me about another 5-10mph on cruise and then it may be worth the price. I have already done everything possible to clean up the plane even with wheel pants. :D
Would love to hear some comparisons...
Dennis
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Re: Which Prop

Postby scubarider2 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:12 pm

I have the pitch on my Warp set so that at takeoff I am turning 5200rpms and at 5500rpms at cruise I am reading 105mph on the GPS and airspeed. I am thinking with all that I have done it should be cruising more like 110=115mph. Just sayin... 8)
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Re: Which Prop

Postby av8rps » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:12 am

I can understand that logic. If I were you I would try an Ivo for the 30 day test. I think if theres a prop that will give you more speed it would be that one. The other thing you can do is call Daryl at Warp and explain your situation to him as he might let you try some different blades. I'm guessing he will suggest some 68 or 70 inch tapered tip blades. You may lose some minimal climb, but I'm pretty sure you will go faster.
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Re: Which Prop

Postby scubarider2 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:38 am

Actually that is what I have. 3-blade tapered tips 70in with nickel leading edge with a custom curve for the rotax 912uls. So IVO has a 30 return?
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