Page 2 of 2

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:05 am
by FredHoffman
I am curious if your angle of incidence on the tail is the same as the other planes. You might be running out of elevator power first. I only flew in the factory demonstrator once but I remember the slats out on final. Air speeds could vary from plane to plane due to installation and instrument errors but I would guess those slats are going to extend at the same angle of attack from plane to plane. Vortex gens on the underside of the tail might be the difference too.

Fred

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:41 pm
by ja30driver
I also have VGs under the horizontal stabilizer...

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:13 pm
by av8rps
I'm thinking it is more about one's willingness to fly so far behind the power curve close to the ground than it is the weight of the airplane.

Typically the slats pop out early in the approach phase, which indicates that you are soon going to start flying on the prop thrust, or you are going to have to use the inertia from a steep descent to arrest sink rate as you get close to your landing spot. I'm not an experienced Super Stol pilot, so I'm speculating. But whenever watching a Super Stol land it appears obvious to me if you don't use a lot of power to arrest the sink rate that you have to use inertia. Or maybe both?

Now add gusty winds to that and it will become more than a bit challenging I'm certain.

The Super Stol is not your normal airplane. It however can be flown like one if you like. You don't have to land it nose high and tail low every time. And the slats don't need to come out unless you want to fly it down really slow, which means doing so typically will put you well behind the power curve, with little to no room for error.

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:32 am
by Tony Armour
When my slats come out, and they do on final every time and sometimes early final, I don't feel like it is slow at all. Yea it's slow but not on the edge of stall slow. I usually slow it down even more on late final. If I chicken out on the "plop it down" landing I have to be careful not to hit it with too much throttle or it will balloon. All that said, I will be keeping this video in my mind. I would like to watch the video in slow motion. I want to see what the rudder is doing as he hits the power. I can tell you from experience that when in the early stage of a stall and slapping the power on it will kick the tail around pretty dang quick :shock:

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:45 am
by joe49
You can go to You Tube from the bottom of the face book link. Then go to settings (small gear at lower right of screen) click that, then click speed, and then .25 to slow to 1/4 speed.

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:19 am
by moving2time
joe49, you can't imagine how much time I have spent on YouTube playing all kinds of videos never knowing about the speed adjustment. Never noticed the tool but I can say now that it worked perfectly. Thank you. I have been pressing play - pause - play - pause as quickly as I could to stop the video and study it. In slow motion you can see a little more because you can catch the movement of the elevator and rudder just up to when the aircraft rolls right. Once it roles the horizontal stab covers up the rudder. It appears that the rudder is going from right to left and back just before the roll and it looks lite the rudder goes back to center from right after it hits the ground. Not quite clear enough to see as clearly as I would like but you can see the movement between the balance appendage of the rudder and elevators. Still a great video plus a great lesson regarding the play speed. That will be my take home lesson for the day. Thank you. Joe B

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:08 am
by Tony Armour
I didn't know about the slow motion there either, I will check it out. Thanks !

I want to clarify what I said about turning (spinning) the airplane around when entering a stall. That was at a high angle of attack with LOTS of right rudder already in. I thought it would never stall. I hit it with full power before pushing the nose over. The prop blast just turned the airplane. Turned is probably a better word than saying spun.

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:51 am
by joe49
Glad to help. But until this video came along, I didn't know how either. But i started looking and pushing the buttons till I found out how. Probablely should have asked one of my kids.

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:35 pm
by AV8R Paul
It was obvious it was a Gusty, Windy day! He was fighting the wind. You can see him using Left & Right Aileron, and pushing the Rudder to to stay lined up with the runway. I was pleased to see him get out of the Plane & walk around. I wish he would post some close up photo's of the damage after the Hard Landing, and & some photo's of what needed repaired. I'd also like to see his repairs. It would be a good learning point for everyone.

For those of you that want to watch in slow motion, & don't know how to make it work.
Slow Motion:
1) Click on the link in the Facebook Page
2) On the bottom Right you can see a YouTube Logo, that will allow you to watch on YouTube
3) Watching it in YouTube, on the bottom Right there is a Gear with a High Definition Logo, you can select speed and it will allow you to select .25, .5 or Normal

If you click on the Picture it will enlarge it for a better view. At least it does on my Mac.

YouTube1.png

YouTube2.png

YouTube3.png

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:50 pm
by R Rinker
I was curious as to what wind shears were going on also. When your on the edge in slow fight, the airplane will wobble and take lots of control input even in perfectly smooth air. Strong winds will show by turbulent actions on the airplane that I don't see in this video. So I'm wondering if he just got too slow?? All airplanes do have obvious limits..anyway, the pilot could answer some of the questions I'm sure..

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:21 pm
by BDA
JA30 - out of curiosity
what are your Power off, and Power on, stall speeds at altitiude?

What speed do your slats deploy?

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:07 pm
by Augustus
Mr. DBA: I see "wing extensions" mentioned in your post. What the heck are they? More info PLEASE.

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:39 pm
by moving2time
The sound in the video is very convincing that the wind is gusting, however, it is impossible to tell what the numbers are. Joe B

Re: SuperSTOL Crash

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:13 pm
by ja30driver
BDA...

It's been a while since indid power on and off stalls at altitude.
I need to go up and do some of that again soon to refresh my numbers in my head.