Oratex is like Yoga Pants

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BucF16
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BucF16 »

I just bought a GoPro forehead mount for my camera. I intend to film myself covering my last Flap and Aileron. Then the tapes. I'm sure I'll dick it up, and will get a lot of criticism from the cheep seats, but hopefully, as you say, someone else will learn from my mistakes. That being said, I still like Oratex. Very fast for a build.

Cheers,
Bruce
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by AV8R Paul »

Happy New Year Shawn

Paul
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Happy new year Paul!

I have finished the inspection rings on both wings now so here is what I learned about super gluing plastic to Oratex.

- It wont come off - not without peeling off the coating with a great amount of heat.

- I have a Super glue allergy - pretty bad one it turns out, Not allergic to anything else on the planet, but superglue will kill me - even while wearing a respirator. Benedryl saved me a trip to the ER. Must ventilate BETTER!!

- Regular liquid superglue is not thin enough, you have to get the super thin stuff or you waste a ton! And make a mess.

- If you press the tip into the fabric at the edge a little, at a 90* angle to the ring, the glue wicks a little better.

- Squeeze the glue enough that the edge of the glue that wicks under the ring trails behind as you go around.

- Only squeeze enough to fill about 3/4 of the way to the outside edge, it will fill in the rest of the way as you go, any more than that, and it will ooze out the outside edge and make a mess.

- It WILL ooze out the outside edge, if you wait a bit then lay a papertowl on it you will get most of it. Dont wipe it, makes it wayyyyy worse.

- You will end up with alot of glue that doesnt wick under on the inside, the thicker the glue, the more you will have. Just wait 30 sec or so and lay paper towl on it to soak up the excess, You can wipe off the rest here, cause you will cut it out later anyway.

- there is a bit of a learning curve to get enough glue without so much that it runs out the other side - so do as many practice rings on your test frame as you have to to figure it out. If the glue runs, it is permanent, unless you paint the plane.

- If you get all the way around the ring and have a part of the ring that didnt take glue - you can add glue from the outside - carefully!!

- The glue wicks under continuously, unless you stop part way to rest your siezed up paws for too long - once it starts to set, the joint wont be seamless and you might have to add a little from the outside to fill it in.

- Treat superglue like it is toxic - use a fan - use a full face respirator - once it starts to flash off, dont stand over it.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Just a note on respirators for super glue -
The recomendation is for “organic vapor” cartriges which is charcoal, but that is what I used (brand new) and nearly died so maybe something different.

These pictures show the glue line in progress
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
AV8R Paul
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by AV8R Paul »

I was building a Composit Aircraft, and developed a sensitivity to the Alpha epoxy. I had to sell off the project. I can't even sit in a Aircraft that is exclusively built with fiberglass. Once the allergy develops it is the end of working with something that particular chemical component in the mix. I can wear the long gloves, and a smock and I still get it, it must be inhaling the out gas from the epoxy that sets it off. I can't imagine Super glue. I've had cuts that were sealed with Super Glue. Knowing you work on the North Slope, you might want to have your Doctor up there put it in his records.
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kenryan
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by kenryan »

I did my inspection rings completely differently. First I marked where I wanted it with blue tape. Next I applied a thin bead of THICK super glue to the ring. Finally I carefully pressed the ring into place. The glue immediately spreads out nicely under the entire ring. That's how I did it. Worked good for me.
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Thanks Ken

I wondered if that would work better

I was trying to follow what Lars said, now we know.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by kenryan »

You do have to be careful not to glue your fingers to the fabric. The first couple were a bit tricky, but it didn't take long to figure out just how to use the fingers of both hands to hold pressure while the glue set.
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

So I had another inspection ring that I didnt like, so I filled the middle w acetone, let it soak a few and started working a knife blade under slowly, and it pealed off - with the silver coating from the fabric.
But just where the ring was - so I dried it out and tried Kens thick glue trick and put a new one back on.
It worked good - but I didnt use enough so it didnt glue all the way to the edge.
I will fill in with the thin stuff.
Last edited by BDA on Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I decided to change the airfoil on my horizontal stab.
I will tell that story in another thread.

So part of the benefit of Oratex I have heard, is that you can take it off, and then re-use it. Maybe I will give it a try.

Set the heat gun to 470* F, and started trying to peel the edge with pocket knife, but it was not going well, and peeling the silver off the fabric overlap.

Increased the temp to 500* and burnt the $&@! out of my hand - but, the fabric started to come off easier withe less silver. When the tube gets warm enough the glue releases, cant just heat the fabric.

Pretty easy to deform the edge of the fabric and over heat it when doing this because it is stuck on there so tight.

I was pulling for all I was worth, and using welding thermal finger cuffs, sweating, and cursing - using pliers, and welding clamps.
Its really on there!!

So I came to the conclusion that yes, with enough heat - and patience, you can re-use it. Have to dress the fabic up some, and reglue, but the ugly marks will cover ok, and I think the deformations will shrink up if the fabric is not overheated.

But, as usual I ran out of the patience part - and cut the rest off, leaving a tail that I could pull on. As I was pulling off what was the the initial wrap around the tube, most of it came off fairly easy. Not sure if it was because the heat had already released the glue, or it wasnt set properly to begin with.

I will be careful to iron the first wrap for sure now!!

Tomorrow I will do the other one at 550* and see if it is easier.

I will also glue that take off piece onto my test frame to see how it goes.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
AV8R Paul
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by AV8R Paul »

What possessed you to redo the tail feathers airfoil?
You hadn’t even tested it in flight.
BDA wrote:I decided to change the airfoil on my horizontal stab.
I will tell that story in another thread.
.
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

This was the factory airfoil tail - it was not symetrical, more lift on the bottom than the top.
I flew the factory plane with it.

I am going to fly mine loaded heavy and need to get the tail out of the mud with a load.
= more lift on the top.

Thats why I made the aluminum symetrical ribs 2 years ago.
But when Chris Wallen made these beautiful tube ribs with my template - I couldnt resist!
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I finally got back in the shop to finish the one stabilizer and strip the other one.
When taking the fabric off I set the heat gun at 650*

This temp does work better - but not that much, still lost a little silver coating at the overlaps, and ALL the hair off my left hand!!

The drawback at this temp is that if you hesitate at all, it melts a big hole through the fabric quickly. So I dont recomend that temp for removal if you are going to reuse the fabric.

Also the 360* wrap around the tube made it almost impossible to lift that edge and peel it back.

So - tip of the week
when covering a tube that you anticipate possibly having to peel and re-apply the fabric for repair - leave a 1 or 2 inch tag end that you can get ahold of later. Wiil look funny to someone that looks into the interior - but will make it possible for you to peel fabric and re-use it - without having to do a total recover.
This is how I will cover w Oratex from now on.

This is a HUGE benefit of Oratex in my opinion.

Still have not had time to apply the “takeoff” fabric to my test piece, maybe next week.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Well, I finally got around to trying the reinstall of fabric that has been put on, shrunk and finished, then removed.

I used the same old horizontal stab that I have done all my other testing on, and put the fabric on the other side.

Full disclosure -
I did not scuff anything
I did not remove any of the old glue
I did not try to iron out the heat distortions from the removal first
I only put one thin coat of glue on both pieces

The take off fabric was badly heat distorted where I had to cook it off of the tubing. so much so that I really had lost hope of this working.
But I said I would try so I did it.
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Last edited by BDA on Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I am amazed at how well it turned out!

Halfway though I was pretty sure it still wouldnt smooth out -
I was Wrong!!

Looking at these pictures it looks like a diff piece of fabric - but if you zoom in you can see the 2 holes in all the pictures.

If I hadnt seen it in person I wouldnt believe it, that take off piece was messed up!

So - you CAN reuse this fabric!

No its not perfect afterwards, but it is “finished” fabric that can be re-used. The only cost would be the small amount of new glue.

This really is a game changer.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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