Oratex is like Yoga Pants

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GreggC
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by GreggC »

I watched a couple of youtube videos of wings being covered with Oratex,
I didn't see them applying glue to the fabric, I did see glue being applied to fabric on smaller
pieces, horizontal stab, elevators...etc but not the wings.
Do you have to apply glue to the wing fabric ??
Did I miss something ??
Gregg
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Yes
That is what it says in the instructions.
2 thins coats on each piece

The glue is transparent and very thin, easy to miss.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
GreggC
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by GreggC »

BDA wrote:Yes
That is what it says in the instructions.
2 thins coats on each piece

The glue is transparent and very thin, easy to miss.
Understood,
Thank you.
Gregg
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BucF16
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BucF16 »

Shawn, I can’t thank you enough for the posts! I’ve followed your instructions and with Lars’ BAF manual I think I’m off to a good start. Here are some of my observations:

I have read that you should cover the larger items first and cover the smaller items from the scraps. For me as a first time user, that certainly won’t work. But I did plan out and arranged all components then precut and labeled the pieces. Hopefully I estimated the sizes needed correctly.
My suggestion is to cover the elevators first then to rudder. I covered the horizontal stab first. Bad move learning on a compound curve. (I have Chris Wallen flying stab).

I got my Hotmelt in Feb. I didn’t open it till last week. 2 months out of date. So far no problems. No goobers or globs. Easy to work with. Cheep 1 in. paint brushes are the best to get that smooth no ridges or bobbles that you have discussed.

Tacking – I have found the hobby iron that Bill Tabbert uses in his YouTube video to work very well for me. $18! Set at 110 C. Tack every 4 in. or so. And then, like you, use the heat gun (set to 400 C) with the felt to finish all the way around the edges.

Taunting – With the Steinel gun set at 400 C and held at 4-6 inches I worked from the margins to the middle. So far that has worked well on the tail feathers.
The Toco iron has been in issue. Lars says to wrap the iron with 2 layers of white paper towel, and run the iron in the cross pattern in the bays. This didn’t work. At the maximum temp 160 C, not enough heat was transferred to the fabric. I tried using the “Release paper”, and it left marks in the fabric.

So Far I’ve only covered the tail feathers. Each one I’m learning and, each is better than the previous. As you say, all in all, I like this process. I’d do it again. It is fast, so sooner in the air!

Thanks again,
Bruce
Bruce Johnson Highlander # 393
"Because I fly, I envy no man on Earth"
Builder web site:
http://www.bruceshighlander.blogspot.com
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BucF16
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BucF16 »

In the above post under taunting, I am describing initial taunting. The process before before the 24 hour where the rule is setting. After the glue is set, I accomplish the final taunting by setting the heat gun to 470 C. 4-6 in. away from the fabric.
Bruce Johnson Highlander # 393
"Because I fly, I envy no man on Earth"
Builder web site:
http://www.bruceshighlander.blogspot.com
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Just a few comments on the glue

Is has a “ best used by date” on the bottle, which is usually 3-4 months away when I get a bottle.

Lars told me that this date is not a hard expiration date.

Some of the sample glue that I got at a show awhile back is definitely expired, it is yellow and thick and lumpy. So I use this as comparison.

My project has gone about a year longer that I expected so I have some left over glue that is 12 months past expiration date.

It deffinitely has lumps (dried pieces of glue) in it, but that is just from air in the bottle. I poured out some glue that was a year out of date and after strainer it looks pretty good.

But
Every project takes longer that you think - so dont order glue untill you really need it. You loose some every time it sits (some dries in bottle), and dont let the glue get close to freezing.

Freezing ruins it
Same with the preglued tape.

Anytime you have a reason to question glue or tape, do a test piece to check adhesion.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Covered my right wing yesterday - no tapes yet

It took 10 hours plus around 2 hours for putting glue on ahead of time.

Had a helper for a couple hours

I think 2 people with 2 heat guns could do it in half the time.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Rivets going in - dont forget to pre-drill holes in ribs -BEFORE FABRIC
Battery powered solder iron makes it easy
I do the holes in the fabric first then apply the reinforcement strip then holes again
Then rivet
Put the rivets in the holes as you melt the holes while its hot- much easier!
Then wipe down with alcohol and put tapes on
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I tried an inspection ring on my trial piece to make sure I could make it work - glad it was the trial piece!
I used Locktight liquid superglue

Here is what I learned
Squirt glue from the inside!! - that way if it oozes out it will be cut away.
It took several tries but eventually I was able to get the tip at the right angle and speed to get the glue to wick under the ring like the instructions say, as I went around the ring
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I learned alot putting the tapes on the wing, getting alot better at it.

The tricky part as I mentioned earlier when using the heat gun is getting it stuck down initially with heat gun, the tape tends to wrinkle and shrink. But if you use the felt blade to shield the tape and hold it in place it works better.

Once the tape is down on the wing it is not so prone to shriveling up.

As you lay it down over the rivets and reinforcing tape, you have to rub it down the center and then out to the edge. I was using the iron down one side before to try to get it down straight with no wrinkles. But then you fight the distortion of the rivets going to the other side. I did not use the iron on the tapes at all this time.

While I was at it I tried patching a hole I punched in my trial piece to see
How it worked. The trial piece is painted Oratex so I scuffed with scotch brite, wiped with alcohol, and heated the 3” tape on. Easy and tough patch, i would def fly with it.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Well
I used 2 bottles of super glue putting inspection rings on one wing - and Ive been sick for the last 4 days since.

Apparently you should wear a mask when using alot of superglue. It is fairly bad for your sinuses. Thought my brains were comming out.

Wear a mask.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BucF16
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BucF16 »

Hi Shawn, Thanks for all of the updates and tips. What did you use for reinforcing tape under your rivets?

I just finish the tail feathers. Minus tapes. On to Ailerons and Flaps.

Cheers, Bruce
Bruce Johnson Highlander # 393
"Because I fly, I envy no man on Earth"
Builder web site:
http://www.bruceshighlander.blogspot.com
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

1/2” Polyfiber reinforcing tape w adhesive from Aircraft Spruce

It is what Lars recomended
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I mentioned before that I ordered the #2 grade fabric, that is 20% cheaper because of blemishes.

So I thought I would post a few pics of the worst of them. Most of them are hard to find, like a hair or a scratch. The one in the pictures is the size of a thumbnail or a little bigger.
But it is flat and coated over, so it is hard to see from more than 2’.
I was lucky enough to put this one where I could cut it out for an inspection hole.

Also - they sent me plenty of extra fabric so that I would have the ability to cut out the blems.

So no suprises, and I would do it again for the same type of mission. Its not a show plane.

If I were going to build a show plane with Oratex, I would paint it to cover up my errors anyway.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
TD1
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by TD1 »

Shawn, thanks for the info, very well done. Takes effort to do this and it's much appreciated.

Curious on your test piece, you said you intentionally poked a hole in it, damaged it. I have read Oratex claims to it's durability and toughness. Was it more difficult to damage than you would expect from say a more traditional poly cloth?
Tom Dougherty
Kahului, HI
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