Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

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Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby jzawodn » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:18 pm

I saw the 2014 80" Catto for sale in another thread and that got me wondering... Our 2013 SuperSTOL with a stock 912 100hp engine has the 3 blade Kiev ground-adjustable prop on it. However, I've noticed a lot of newer Just birds are using the Catto props. (Weirdly, we live fairly close to Catto and I've been there a few times.)

Does anyone happen to know the pros and cons of the Catto vs. the Kiev (which is adjustable)? I'm curious to know what folks are using and why... or if anyone has actually tried both on their bird.

Thanks!
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby dkshow » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:50 pm

I flew a Catto for 2 years and this winter put a Duc Helices prop on. The Catto pulls really hard out of the hole and climbs great but I only saw about 83mph for a normal cruise at 5400 with a stock Rotax 912. With the Duc I'm seeing 100-105mph and I haven't lost much at all on the takeoff performance. It's much much smoother and I like less vibration myself. The startup and stop with the Catto is violent on the Rotax. I love the Catto stuff but I think it's too heavy for the Rotax for every day use and eventually causes gearbox problems. Just my two cents.
Keith Showalter
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Anchorage, Alaska Superstol N445K
Built in NC with Rob Pedersen, Plane Fun Aircraft
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby Clark in AZ » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:33 pm

Hey Keith, which Duc prop did you use?
Building SuperSTOL Kit 512
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby dkshow » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:02 pm

I've got the Duc Flash. 3 bladed ground adjustable
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby Clark in AZ » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:43 pm

Thanks, great info. Much appreciated.

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Building SuperSTOL Kit 512
Cave Creek, AZ
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby jzawodn » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:41 pm

dkshow wrote:I flew a Catto for 2 years and this winter put a Duc Helices prop on. The Catto pulls really hard out of the hole and climbs great but I only saw about 83mph for a normal cruise at 5400 with a stock Rotax 912. With the Duc I'm seeing 100-105mph and I haven't lost much at all on the takeoff performance. It's much much smoother and I like less vibration myself. The startup and stop with the Catto is violent on the Rotax. I love the Catto stuff but I think it's too heavy for the Rotax for every day use and eventually causes gearbox problems. Just my two cents.


That's very interesting, thanks for the feedback.

With our Kiev 3 blade, I only get about 85mph cruise also at ~5400. That makes me wonder if I should experiment with adjusting the pitch a bit for more cruise.

What's your static RPM like at the start of the takeoff roll with the Duc?

Jeremy
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby dkshow » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:27 pm

I pitched the Duc for 5400 static. I thought the take off roll would be longer because it feels like it's not pulling as hard as the Catto (in the seat of your pants), however, I can tell virtually no difference when I'm light. I haven't flown it super heavy yet. You could probably pitch it flatter yet if you wanted more of a climb prop. Each degree of pitch change ends up being a 200 RPM change in static RPM.

I've been cruising at 5350 for the most part, it feels about right. Now, the throttle position is much closer to full throttle because of the pitch. I have about an inch of throttle left to full power. I'm sure my manifold pressure is higher and I'm probably burning more fuel because I'm taking more power out of the engine but worth it for the added speed. If I push it to 5400 or more I'm seeing an easy 105mph.
Keith Showalter
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Built in NC with Rob Pedersen, Plane Fun Aircraft
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby av8rps » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:37 am

That is impressive for a Super STOL.
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby john2 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:30 am

dkshow wrote:I've got the Duc Flash. 3 bladed ground adjustable


Keith,
This is very impressive. Which diameter did you go with?

I haven't even finished my project yet and have bought two props already. Now looking at a third.....geez!!!
Take Care,
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby dkshow » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:02 pm

John,
I want to say it’s a 75” diameter prop. I was out again today playing in the wind up the Knik river, I had a no roll landing with 25-30 mph wind on the nose. Those are always fun. When I turned into the wind and pulled my flaps I looked down and my gps said I was going 7mph over the ground. Lots of fun.
Keith Showalter
More Photos at www.keithshowalter.com
Anchorage, Alaska Superstol N445K
Built in NC with Rob Pedersen, Plane Fun Aircraft
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Re: Catto vs. Kiev Prop on SuperSTOL

Postby john2 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:14 am

Thanks Keith. Guess I need to check into it a little better. The DUC application chart on Aircraftspruce website recommends a 68" 3 blade for the 912ULS, 912is and 914. They recommend a 73" (rounded off) 3 blade for the Lycoming 0360.
Anyway you could check the spec sheet that came with yours? Your performance sounds like the "cat's meow" for the Rotax 912.
Take Care,
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N265JC reserved
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