Beringer brakes

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Beringer brakes

Postby BDA » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:07 pm

The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
Attachments
7FE99E58-DA7B-44EC-A54F-F4FFA02FDECB.jpeg
Beringer proportioner valve
SuperStol XL With Titan 340
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby BDA » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:47 pm

AND

What oil are you using?

Beringer says to use mineral oil... but every brake fluid I have seen is synthetic.

I am thinking hydraulic fluid will be just fine.

Anyone have any other ideas?
SuperStol XL With Titan 340
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Mods in progress: Wing extensions, Airfoil tail ribs
Goal: 15mph no wind
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby EchoWhiskey » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:41 pm

Thats a great question. I am starting brakes too and Beringer seems to think its useful. One of the benefits being preventing accidental prop strike with locked brakes. I see a value there as new to tailwheel and wanting to push the envelope. As it is adjustable, and not terribly heavy, why not?

I was slso told by Jack not to mount the reservior on the brake cylinder. However Beringer shows that too. He says mount on firewall.

I do like the idea of it being more stationary and not moving with rudder pedal
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby AV8R Paul » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:44 pm

I’ve never adjusted my valve since Chris and I completed the Build, we got it to where I liked it, and I just leave it alone.

BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
AV8R Paul
Certified Light Sport Repairman LSRM-A
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP (Purple Haze)
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby CanadianSheepHunter » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:34 pm

BDA wrote:AND

What oil are you using?

Beringer says to use mineral oil... but every brake fluid I have seen is synthetic.

I am thinking hydraulic fluid will be just fine.

Anyone have any other ideas?


Mineral oil would get very thick at -20C wouldn't it? I just ordered my Beringers today, and will sell my new Matco system.
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby CanadianSheepHunter » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:35 pm

BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks


Is the proportional valve the knob on top on left side of pic ?
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby CanadianSheepHunter » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:37 pm

How much heavier are the Beringer system compared to Matco system ?
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby BDA » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:30 pm

The picture above (red thing) the whole piece is P valve

I have not done weight comparison but someone else posted here that matco is 1 pound heavier I think, plus the double caliper to make them equal the Beringer setup.

As to mineral oil - aviation hydraulic fluid (chevron) is good to -50+F
SuperStol XL With Titan 340
#486 - N331AK
Shawn Taplin
Mods in progress: Wing extensions, Airfoil tail ribs
Goal: 15mph no wind
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby CanadianSheepHunter » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:44 am

BDA wrote:The picture above (red thing) the whole piece is P valve

I have not done weight comparison but someone else posted here that matco is 1 pound heavier I think, plus the double caliper to make them equal the Beringer setup.

As to mineral oil - aviation hydraulic fluid (chevron) is good to -50+F



thx
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby EchoWhiskey » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:42 pm

Where are people that are using the valve mounting it? I'm not sure if the bracket is helpful or not.
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby CanadianSheepHunter » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:28 am

Got my Beringer 6” Wheels/Brakes for 1 1/4” axle on Superstol. I weighed them with a digital fish scale as they are in the 3 pics. The Beringer will need the four AN 4 bolts/nuts added, the Matco will need the 1 1/4” axle nut added to have correct comparison weights. But the weights as they are in the 3 pics are...Beringer 6 lb 4 oz, Matco 7 lb 11 oz. I’ll weigh again when I added the bolts to the Beringer and axle nut to Matco. And I’ll weigh the master cylinders/cylinders another day. The Beringer steel braidedlines will add weight but at the end of the day I think it will be a tie between the two weight wise.
Attachments
2245CE54-18A4-44E3-8DE0-733B8D408562.jpeg
7C47F908-5B25-4796-BC8A-267985B11041.png
EDCA2A34-331B-477C-A285-156F07874A65.jpeg
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby AV8R Paul » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:15 pm

Attached are some photo’s of where & how Chris Wallen installed the valve. We installed it and adjusted it once and it performed acceptable. I haven’t touched it since. It makes sense that once you find the right setting you will leave it alone.
Here are some info on my install:
The Proportioner valve is under the Pilots seat mounted with two adel clamps. The Brake Lock is under the passengers seat mounted on a small sheet metal tray. Both can be seen when the seats are moved aft of full forward position.

There is a you tube video of a comparison of Berringer versus Match Brakes in a kitfox. He compares weigh, & breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOjH93u1kc&t=7s

One thing, follow the break in procedures for the Berringer breaks. I wasn’t aware they had a specific break in process. I am replacing both the break pads and the Rotors.

BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
Attachments
IMG_1800 copy.jpg
The Brake lock under the passengers seat.
IMG_1799 copy.jpg
The Proportioner valve mounted with two adel clamps under the Pilots seat
IMG_1798 copy.jpg
The Proportioner Valve is on the top, and the brake lock is on the bottom the black sheet metal
AV8R Paul
Certified Light Sport Repairman LSRM-A
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP (Purple Haze)
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby BDA » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm

Paul,
Please elaborate on why you have to replace your pads and rotors after 170 hrs.

And - when you adjusted the proportion valve initially, how close was it to max power available?

When landing do you have enough grab to lock up and nose over?

Thanks
SuperStol XL With Titan 340
#486 - N331AK
Shawn Taplin
Mods in progress: Wing extensions, Airfoil tail ribs
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Location: Kenai Alaska

Re: Beringer brakes

Postby CanadianSheepHunter » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:38 am

AV8R Paul wrote:Attached are some photo’s of where & how Chris Wallen installed the valve. We installed it and adjusted it once and it performed acceptable. I haven’t touched it since. It makes sense that once you find the right setting you will leave it alone.
Here are some info on my install:
The Proportioner valve is under the Pilots seat mounted with two adel clamps. The Brake Lock is under the passengers seat mounted on a small sheet metal tray. Both can be seen when the seats are moved aft of full forward position.

There is a you tube video of a comparison of Berringer versus Match Brakes in a kitfox. He compares weigh, & breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOjH93u1kc&t=7s

One thing, follow the break in procedures for the Berringer breaks. I wasn’t aware they had a specific break in process. I am replacing both the break pads and the Rotors.

BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks


That’s an excellent You tube video on Beringer comparison thanks for the link
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Re: Beringer brakes

Postby SheepdogRD » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:28 pm

AV8R Paul wrote:There is a you tube video of a comparison of Berringer versus Match Brakes in a kitfox. He compares weigh, & breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOjH93u1kc&t=7s

It's an interesting video, but Matco isn't in it. That video is a comparison with the Grove/Cleveland system.

It's a woefully un-scientific test: a single run with each system, comparing an older Grove installation a brand new Beringer installation, and run by a tester who was hardly unbiased. I'd guess that very few -- if any -- Just aircraft are running Grove systems. And, while the practical test is closest to what we experience in use, it doesn't give us repeatable data comparing the peak braking forces available.

I haven't seen any testing that compares the Beringer system with a Matco system running intensifiers, 1/8" brake lines, and a remote reservoir. Steve Henry says those low-cost Matco modifications make the systems comparable.

I think the Beringer proportioning valve -- they call it the Anti-Lock Inline Regulator -- is a terrific idea. If it keeps me from nosing over as I learn to use the brakes judiciously, it might justify the added cost of the Beringer system. I wonder what comparable component might be available.
Richard Holtz
Highlander N570L -- Ms. Tonka -- in gestation

If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.
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