Exhaust

For general discussion of the Just Aircraft family of aircraft.
Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.

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Exhaust

Postby b1x4nqb » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:16 pm

Anyone going to use something other than the Toucan ?  I understand it is quite noisy but it is the only one I know of that fits in the cowl.  Must be more choices!  Tim from JA said a new exhaust was being developed but not out yet for the Highlander.  Supposed to be much quieter.  Anyway, I need to order one and was wondering what you all thought.

Paul
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Postby DaveU » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:52 pm

I do not know of an alternative at this point.  I do not think the factory Rotax exhaust will work with this style mount.  I guess the toucan works alright.  It sounds pretty good, but is a bit louder than the rotax exhaust would be.

Dave
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Postby stede52 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:14 pm

Not sure how many of you have seen this new 4 into 1 muffler but here it is and here is the body of the email which was sent to Just Aircraft discribing the muffler: "Hello everyone!> Well the last 5 months have been
busy, the final results have been worth it. Here are the pictures of the
Stainless Steel 4 into 1 performance exhaust system. We went to a custom
aircraft exhaust manufacture and have been working with them to give the
Highlander what it needed to get all the HP it could out of the stock Rotax
912S.> Below are the photos of our results. We are very pleased with the
quality and the performace we got out of the engine compaire to the standard
rotax exhaust and a more recent 2 can design now on the market.> Our set up
with this exhaust was to use the Rotax Airbox along with RAM, cold,
unfiltered induction simulating 80mph force. This gave us an extra 1" of mp
to the engine and with the 4 into 1 performace exhaust gave us 100+ hp on
the dyno. Anywhere from 97.9 to 104.3hp depending on OAT temps to the carb.>
The muffler is what we call a performance muffler. A larger more quieter
muffler can be custom made but at this time no testing has been done with
the larger muffler to relect what engine performace is lost. Our goal was to
go for HP at this time.> The cost: Right now we must place an order for 4 or
more to make a production run. The cost of an individual exhaust systems is
$1,400 shipped to your door via UPS ground anywhere in the US. If you choose
to wire funds or send a check we will extend a $50 discount to you. We will
not charge your card or cash your check until we have enough orders for a
production run.> Part Number: JA-912S-PX> If you have any questions you may
contact me here via e-mail or call 678-463-5944. I usually am able to return
calls after 7pm you get my voicemail.> Best regards,> Mark Sorenson>
678-GO-FLY-HI"
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Postby stede52 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:18 pm

couple more pictures of the exhaust
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I have one

Postby scubarider » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:12 pm

I have one.  I am looking at the pictures above.  I have not mounted the engine yet, but close.  From the pictures above it looks like the muffler fits right between where the tricycle leading wheel would go.  This is a problem for the escapades for which I have.  So am thinking that the muffler that they ordered for me may not even fit.   :cry:
Ideas????  :?:
Dennis
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That front wheel thing

Postby Gerald V9 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:35 pm

Once again I think the resolution to your problem would be to get rid of that front wheel.
                                                                                        You have to do what it takes, Gerald V9
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called

Postby scubarider » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:19 am

Just called the guys in Wahalla.  Looks like the new and fantastic exhaust system will NOT fit my plane.  YES THE ONE WITH THE WHEEL OUT FRONT  :x
I asked if they could get there heads together on what to do.  Not sure I want to go with the Toucan.  
Anyone have ideas on a better exhaust system???  :?:
Thanks,
Dennis
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Postby Dave Krall CFII SEL SES » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:05 pm

Try Jeron at Raven Redrives (505 737 9656). He did a nice custom stainless steel glass pack for my Suzuki. I'll let you know in a few years how good it is.
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Postby alan » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:56 pm

Stede52,

All this sounds great, except the price. I'm not saying it's too high, just that the Toucan works well enough and it's paid for already. Now if I hadn't already bought it, it would be a different story.

I do have a couple questions:

Is it entirely stainless?

What kind of stainless?

What was the horse power with the Toucan exhaust? In other words, what kind of gain could I expect when swapping
from the Toucan to yours/theirs?

That last one is the important one. If you can prove to me a 10% gain then I will have a good reason to swap them out, but if not, then $1400 is just not in the budget. Don't get me wrong, competition is the American way. It keeps prices down and allows choices. GOOD JOB.

Alan & N1010Z 160 hours and climbing
If I had known I would live this long I would have taken better care of myself.
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Postby stede52 » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:39 pm

Alan,
First of all I want to make sure everyone understands I'm not promoting Mark Sorensons product.  I'm only passing on information I received because I peronally like options.
I too was going to go with the Toucan until I started talking to a number of sources (lockwood, LEAF, CPS techs and a couple of other Rotax engine guys.  The bottomline was that the 912s produces it's max hp using a 4 into 1 exhaust system which is approx 100 hp with the airbox using outside air and approx 95hp without the airbox and fitted with the Rotax 4 into 1 exhaust.  According to Mark Sorenson and the others the 2 into 1 systems work OK, however, because of the design it does not allow the gases the escape as efficently as the 4 into 1 system which creates back pressures and thus vibration in the system which in turn robs horse power.  This made sense to me and if you want any futher explanation you'll need to get it from someone else because I am by no means an engine guy. The information in Marks email in the previous post I made was Marks claims not mine so anyone interested would need to talk to him.  I have no proof of concept concerning his exhaust but he might.

He also told me the entire system was stainless, however, I don't know what kind of stainless it is. Sorenson would need to answer that.

According to what Mark told me his HP gains were based on comparisons to the standard rotax exhaust, I don't know if he actually did dyno testing with the Toucan, you might want to give him a call.

All good questions for Mark Sorenson and if I had already purchased an exhaust system I would hesitate to spend another $1400 without good reason.

Steve
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hmmmmmmm

Postby scubarider » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:36 am

Well, just was told no way the exhaust I bought will fit.  So, back to the drawing board.  Just not convinced the Toucan is the way to go.  Maybe go custom?  I paid $1,500 for the exhaust.  I bet I could get one for that custom maybe???   :?:
Tim at Just said he could sell the one I bought though.  That is good news.
Dennis
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4 in 1 Exhaust

Postby Wes » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:29 pm

Dennis,
First off, I'm amazed they sent you that exhaust knowing that you are building the Escapade. Hey, maybe they thought you would see the light and move the little wheel to the proper end of the airplane. He He. (now this is coming from a guy who hasn't had a tailwheel endorsement in 40 years).

But I just wanted to ask you to not dent up your exhaust system before you send it back, cause they are probably going to turn around and ship it to me.  Tim said my engine should arrive next week sometime.

Keep building, you are going to have a eye-catching aeroplane there.

Wes
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Thanks

Postby scubarider » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:56 pm

Thanks Wes  8)
I boxed it all nice and tight.  Tim said he could get it out the door possibly even today.  
I may just end up going with the Toucan.  Thought about doing the custom route, but, probably not worth the time and trouble.
Dennis
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Postby alan » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:29 pm

Scubarider,

I'll trade you for a perfectly good, slightly used, Toucan.

Alan
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thanks

Postby scubarider » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:45 pm

Thanks for the thought Alan but Tim has already sold mine and will be ordering the Toucan for me.  The new exhaust cost $1,500 bucks!   Toucan not so much....
:)
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