How have you registered your aircraft?

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Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.

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How have you registered your aircraft?

Postby rgmullins » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:37 pm

Experimental Light Sport Aircraft or Experimental Amateur Built? It has to be a 51% kit to be EAB, and I would think this one qualifies. I think there are some special requirements for ELSA also. Not sure if Just has met those or not..

Rick
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Postby b1x4nqb » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:08 pm

Rick,

I called the EAA and spoke to them.  They said I could not register as an LSA (in their opinion) due to JA not demonstrating to them that they meet the requirements to sell such kits.  He stressed that this doesn't mean they are not compliant, just they (EAA) are not convinced as of yet.  This doesn't stop you from certifying the plane "initially" within the LSA specs as an Ex-AB and later on deciding to fly it as an LSA.  That's my path.  I'd imagine most everyone else would as well.  

Paul
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Postby alan » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:16 pm

You will have a MUCH easier time going the Experimental route than ELSA. There are lots of DARs out there with Exp experience. I also think the regs as they apply to the owner/builder are friendlier as well.

Alan
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my plane

Postby scubarider » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:50 pm

I am registering mine as an ELSA.  I thought about going the AB due to the maintenance issue.  But thought it over and the 16 hour course is not a bad idea plus selling an AB aircraft is difficult, or more so than an ELSA.  Paul, not sure what you are talking about when you say it can't be registerd as a Light Sport.  Just has not certified a plane as a ready build but there are lots and lots registered as ELSA.  Is that what you are thinking?  
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Postby b1x4nqb » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:18 pm

I tried to do a quick search to find something that explained it better than I and more like what the EAA guy told me.  Maybe this link will help as it sounds similar to what he said for Just Aircraft.??

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/lsa.html

For the record I never said it couldn't be certified that way, only that the EAA guy said he didn't think so in his opinion based off the data he had available (this was only about 2-3 months ago when I called).  I hope you're right, in that it will offer all of us another option.
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Postby Dave Krall CFII SEL SES » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:19 am

We're probably going to keep the weight under the ELSA max for future conversion options, and register it AB for now.
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Postby stede52 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:29 am

In the US if you register it as ELSA the 51% rule does not apply and therefore a builders log is not required to receive an air worthiness cert, however, under the ELSA you will need to take the 15 hour bone head course  :? (which I personal think is a rip off) to be able to do your own annual. If registered as an Experimental the 51% rule will apply in which a builders log will be requested by the DAR for air worthiness, however, you will be able to do your annuals yourself without taking the 16 hour bone head course  :D .  I just went though all of this with the DAR that gave me the ELSA Airworthiness Cert for my Quad City Challenger II.  ELSA certification is simple, however, you are then restricted by ELSA aircraft regulations.
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Postby rgmullins » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:11 pm

I talked to Tim at JA today and he said that earlier in the year it would have been possible to register it as ELSA under the special transition rules that are in place to migrate the "heavy" ultralights. JA is working with the FAA now to have the kits certified as ELSA but until that process is completed EAB is the only option. Tim didn't know how long that process would take. He told me to call back next week to talk to the guy that has actually been working with the FAA (I forget his name) . I'm hoping that won't take too long as that is the route I had planned to take.
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hmmm

Postby scubarider » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:12 am

I knew that there were several flying Escapades/Highlanders under ELSA.  So therefore went ahead with my N-number under ELSA.  Now are you guys telling me I can't get my plane registered unless I go with the AB?  Once again, getting upset with this whole #$%^&  :x    I talked to my DAR and he gave me a form for JA to fill out.  Have not called them yet.  I guess this is what you are talking about.
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Postby stede52 » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:02 pm

Pretty frustrating, I did the same.  :( . I think I'll call them next week also just to follow up.
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just called

Postby scubarider » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:10 pm

Just called Tim at Just and he said that I had to wait to talk to someone there who is dealing with the registration issue.  He didn't seem to know anything about it.
The trasitiion period is not over until the end of this January but I just don't see how it has any bearing on the Escapade which is not considered a "fat ultralight".
Just Aircraft has to fill out the FAA form 8130-15 for compliance.  Waiting.....  :roll:
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Postby stede52 » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:17 pm

Dennis, you are correct, the transistion period only applies to those fat ultralights which are currently flying under the 103 exemption or can't meet 103. The deadline has nothing to do with the Just's aircraft or any other new kit planes whether they are new fat ultralights or not.
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Postby rgmullins » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:49 pm

The transition period applied to any unregistered/uncertified plane that did not fit the ultralight requirements (but not too heavy to be a LSA). You could have taken one of these planes and registered them as an ELSA without having to show date of manufacture, builders log, etc. I went through the process a couple months ago to register a trike I built. The period doesn't end until next year, true. But with the FAA backlog it's not likely you could start now and have it completed by the deadline. After that deadline to be able to register something as ELSA the manufacturer has to jump through a few hoops.
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got it worked out

Postby scubarider » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:18 pm

Just wanted to let you know that we got it worked out on getting the Escapade certified with my DAR.  Called JA and talked with them then called my DAR and all I have to do now is fax an application letter along with FAA form 8130-6.   Should get it done soon.  They do have that January 31st deadline still in their minds so if you can get it done before then you might get things done the way you want them.
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Postby rgmullins » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:01 pm

Did JA tell you how they were doing on getting the kits certified? We're making great progress but no way we could make January 31. Especially after weekends like this last one. We glued in all the nose pieces into the aileron leading edges only to realize the measurements in the build manual are for the Escapade. This manual needs some serious updating...
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