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Postby scubarider » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:07 pm

Well, looks like I will not make my goal of one year build fly time.  One year exactly will be tomorrow.  If my oil pressure gauge would have worked then up and away, BUT no.     :cry:
Ok, this is what I have done so far.  I filled the oil the way rotax recommends.  I have the video also.  Ran it up with spark plugs disconnected to check pressure.  NONE.  Went back and completely reworked the gauge.  The gauge is a Westach dual oil pressure/oil temp gauge.  The Westach came with its own sending units.  The oil pressure simply replaced the stock one on the motor.  I checked and rechecked and the oil temp sender from Westach did not fit correctly so used the one on the motor.  The Westach one has one with both a hot and ground wire.  The one on the motor simply has a hot connect, grounded by motor.  
After reworking the gauge wiring tried the run up again.  No pressure.  Nothing.
So, reworked the oil sequence.  The out hose would not take any more oil.
Tried again.  No pressure  :x
SO, am taking out the Westach, ordering from Lockwood two single gauges.  One oil pressure, one oil temp.  Taking out the Westach {and going to jump up and down on it} an replacing it with the oil pressure gauge from Lockwood that takes the stock sending unit.  Will remove the Pegsus dash mount compass and replace it with the oil temp gauge.  Will configure a mount for the compass on top of the panel.
Then after all that is done try again.  If that does not work will have to hire someone to come out because "I AM DONE"!
:roll:
Dennis
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Postby alan » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:20 pm

Dennis,

Sorry to hear you are having a problem with Westach. I used them on my Kitfox II and now on the Highlander. The only problem I had was the lousy drawing on the Oil Pressure/Oil Temp guage. I even sent the gauge and sender back and it was returned with no problems reported. I hooked it back up and it still didn't work. Then I looked at the drawing more closely (and it must have been one of my better days) and saw where I had missinterpreted the drawing (did I mention it was lousy?), fixed the wiring hookup, and no more problem.

I wish I could tell you where I had gone wrong, but it's been almost two years. Good luck.

Alan
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Thanks

Postby scubarider » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:24 pm

Thanks Alan,  I did the same thing.  I actually went in and tried every combo I could with wiring {just in case}.  No luck.
D
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Postby n570k » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:14 pm

I may have missed this but you do have the spark plugs in the engine don't you? The plugs must be in to create the blowby in the crankcase which pushes the oil from the sump up to the tank. I did this to mine, hand turning it for some time before I found out.
Dale
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hmmmm

Postby scubarider » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:46 pm

Have not heard that.  I had the top plugs from each head out to make the prop turn easier.  Actually the video suggested that.
The pump was working and drew down about 4 funnels worth of oil down the out hose from the tank.  Would it have done that if it were not drawing correctly?  Hmmmm, am I missing something?  Worth a try.  Thanks,
Dennis
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Tried

Postby scubarider » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:00 pm

Well, went back today and retried everything.  Ended up just pulling the gauges like I said and now waiting for new ones.  
We pulled the pressure sending unit out and it pumped oil out as I turned the prop.  We also unhooked the IN side of the oil tank to see if it was pumping all the way through.  Yep.  As I turned the prop oil pumped.  So, it SEEMS like I HAVE oil in the engine and SHOULD have pressure.  Banking on it being the sender/gauge.
We will see.  So the plane sits.  :cry:
D
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Oil Pressure Indication

Postby Wes » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:05 pm

Dennis,
Did you get a chance to try the 'shorted lead" test?
The electrical tests should tell you if you have an intrumentation problem or an engine oil circuit issue.

Wes
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testing

Postby scubarider » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:23 pm

We did test the ohms as best we could also checking ground.  Could not really tell what was up actually.  Can you describe the test you are talking about?
Thanks,
Dennis
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Oil Pressure Indication

Postby Wes » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:58 pm

Dennis,
I don't have a Westach gauge here to test, but here are some basic checks;
- When the gauge is powered, the needle should move slightly, if not, it's probably not getting power.
- If the gauge powers up OK, (needle wiggle), then try shorting the (non-ground) lead on the sender to ground. The gauge needle should move. (either to zero or full scale). If not, you have a wiring problem between the sender and gauge (or a broken gauge).
- If you ground the same lead thru a resistor (50 to 200 ohm), the gauge needle should rest somewhere on the scale between zero and full scale. If this works, then the only thing left is the sender. You can try pulling the sender and adapting the 1/8 NPT to a shop air hose fitting and applying shop air pressure and watch the gauge. This is a complete end-to-end check and would prove the oil pressure instrument works.

Good Luck,

Wes
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new gauges

Postby scubarider » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:59 pm

Well, put in the new gauges.  They look good so like them better than the dual gauge.  But, of course did not solve the problem.  Will try next to heat the engine for a few hours to warm the oil.  Then try and bleed the air out once again.  I do have a thermostat in place and will heat it as well.  Any other suggestions???
Thanks,
Dennis
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Postby n570k » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:45 pm

Dennis,
Once again put all the plugs in. The blowby pressure in the crankcase is what moves the oil from the sump to the tank. The oil pump sucks oil from the tank through the engine and then drains into the sump. Crank it by hand and the oil tank (with cap off) will belch when the sump is dry.
Dale
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yep

Postby scubarider » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:44 am

Yep, did that.  We stuck another funnel full of oil on the "out" hose.  With plugs in we turned the prop counterclockwise "facing".  I heard the burping in the oil tank.  This should be it right?  Well, still no pressure.  My plan for this evening is to heat the engine up with some space heaters for a couple hours.  Then take a heat gun and heat the thermostat.  Then disconnect the "out" side of the oil tank and connect a funnel to the hose.  Put in some oil and turn the prop with the plugs in.
Question:  Should it draw the oil down and eventually put it in the tank?  Because it drew down about four funnels worth then stopped.  Would not draw anymore.  The last time we tried, like I said, it "burped" in the oil tank.  
I have installed new gauges.  Did the tests for them and they both work.  
If heating the engine as described above does not work I am at a loss for what to do next.  The next drastic thing I guess would be to disconnect all the hoses, drain the oil out and start fresh.  Just so frustrating.  So close to flight test can taste it.  
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.  Even if you have a suggestion on someone to call.  Most around here do not own a 912uls, around here mostly rotax 582's.  
Thanks,
Dennis
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Postby Charlie Reilly » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:13 am

Hi Dennis:
  Did you call Lockwood Aviation in Sebring They have  ahelp line for Rotax engines 2 hours in AM and 2 hours in PM.I found them very helpful.
 Charlie
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good idea

Postby scubarider » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:47 am

Good idea Charlie.  I will do that.  
By the way.  Have been doing an internet search on purging air from the oil line.  Found the service bulletin SI-912-018.  It is NOT like the video I purchased.  In the service bulletin it talks about removing the "IN" hose from the oil tank and holding it below the engine into an empty container.  Plug the connection at the oil tank.  Then runing 15psi into the oil tank overflow.  Fill the oil tank to top level.  Disconnect the spark plug wires.  REMOVE one plug from each head.  Turn prop from 20 to 60 times until there is pressure on the gauge.  Keep checking the oil level.  Done.
NOT what I have been doing.  I'm now confused.  Actually have been that way for YEARS!   :roll:
Dennis
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Postby alan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:43 pm

Dennis,

I don't think this is going to help your problem any, but the oil return to the tank,driven by crankcase pressure, has nothing to do with oil pressure. The oil pump draws oil from the tank and pressures it throughout the engine galleries which drain into the bottom of the crankcase and then blown by crankcase pressure back up to the remote sump.

You mentioned that the oil pump drew down 4 funnels of oil then stopped. It sounds to me like the oil pump has failed after it drew in those 4 funnels.

Can you say "Warranty Repair?" Sure you can.

Alan
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