Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
- Tralika
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:49 pm
- Location: Wasilla Alaska
Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
I just mounted my tailwheel for the first time. It looks like my tailwheel leaf spring has a slight twist to it. The tailwheel is canted off to one side. I put the spring on a level work bench top and I can see the two ends are not even. Anybody else have this problem?
John Nealon
Wasilla, Alaska
Highlander Extreme #191
mykitlog.com/jnealon
Wasilla, Alaska
Highlander Extreme #191
mykitlog.com/jnealon
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- Veteran Member
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:59 am
- Location: Big Bear Airport
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
Never had that problem but mine yield over time and need to be bent back to the correct angle. I take the trailer hitch out of the receiver on my truck and put the pin back in. Then stick the spring into the receiver under the pin and use a steel fence post pole on the end for a cheater bar. I drew a template for the perfect bend on a piece of wood for reference. You could use the same system and a BF crescent wrench with a cheater bar to remove a twist. I'm not an engineer, but I understand using heat will wreck the spring, they need to be cold-set.
I'm now using two springs, a JA supplied spring, supplemented with a secondary spring from my friend's Aeronca Chief, it's the perfect fit.
I'm now using two springs, a JA supplied spring, supplemented with a secondary spring from my friend's Aeronca Chief, it's the perfect fit.
GDS
So Cal
Highlander #232
Rotax 912ULS, Dynon Skyview
So Cal
Highlander #232
Rotax 912ULS, Dynon Skyview
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- Seasoned Member
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:08 am
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
I also use a double tailwheel spring, Boise spring works in Boise, Idaho made mine. It takes a lot of the bounce out of the tailwheel on a hard landing. R L Messenger
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- Veteran Member
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:59 am
- Location: Big Bear Airport
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
I'll be up there in June, I'll order one from them. My local spring shop couldn't find the 1 1/2" stock to make it, probably need a shop in a more agricultural area.
GDS
So Cal
Highlander #232
Rotax 912ULS, Dynon Skyview
So Cal
Highlander #232
Rotax 912ULS, Dynon Skyview
- Tralika
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:49 pm
- Location: Wasilla Alaska
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
I may be interested in ordering one from them as well. In the attached photo you can see that my tail wheel assembly is pitched up. The pivot point should be level. This is with my main landing gear axles sitting on a couple of 2x4s on the floor. When I mount the wheels the tail wheel will be pitched up even more. I've had problems with tail wheel shimmy caused by the tail wheel pitched down after the leaf spring wore out. I'm not sure if shimmy can occur from the tail wheel being pitched up but I don't really want to find out.
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John Nealon
Wasilla, Alaska
Highlander Extreme #191
mykitlog.com/jnealon
Wasilla, Alaska
Highlander Extreme #191
mykitlog.com/jnealon
- danerazz
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Bangor
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
My understanding is the tailwheel pivot SHOULD be pitched up a little as on yours. Somewhere on here there is a link to a post on supercub.org (I think) about this exact question, and it is explained that a little "trail" of the tailwheel helps prevent shimmy. Do a little research, I would hate to see you make a trouble where there wasn't any.
Edit: it is on backcountry.org, here: http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/i ... shimmy-687
Edit: it is on backcountry.org, here: http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/i ... shimmy-687
Dane
Paralysis by analysis
#242
Paralysis by analysis
#242
- Gil T
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:57 pm
- Location: Quartzsite AZ
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
Gil T
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- Tralika
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:49 pm
- Location: Wasilla Alaska
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
Gil T, It was fortunate that your tail wheel failure occurred where you could get to the plane with a trailer. Years ago I helped a guy with a cub lash an ax handle to his tail wheel spring after he knocked the tail wheel off on a beaver dam when taking off of a gravel bar. He landed on a little strip but had to go back to town so we did the McGiver thing using wire, para cord and of course duct tape. It worked well enough so he could get home.
I've flown several planes with tail wheel shimmy. I flew a 185 for several years that shimmied on just about every landing on pavement. At one point the mechanics got so frustrated they tightened up the tail wheel so much it wouldn't steer. They were pretty proud of themselves but it didn't make the pilots happy. You had to land and keep the tail off the runway for as long as possible. Not easy when loaded heavy. I got sick of trying to explain to the passengers that the violent shimmy was normal for that airplane. I'm surprised the plane didn't fall apart but as far as I know it's still out there doing its shimmy. I'm partial to locking tail wheels. I know this has been discussed on this forum in the past but I doubt I'll put one on my Highlander.
My airframe does not have the bracket I see in your photos. One bolt connects the front of the spring in a channel. Maybe this was an improvement by the factory.
I've flown several planes with tail wheel shimmy. I flew a 185 for several years that shimmied on just about every landing on pavement. At one point the mechanics got so frustrated they tightened up the tail wheel so much it wouldn't steer. They were pretty proud of themselves but it didn't make the pilots happy. You had to land and keep the tail off the runway for as long as possible. Not easy when loaded heavy. I got sick of trying to explain to the passengers that the violent shimmy was normal for that airplane. I'm surprised the plane didn't fall apart but as far as I know it's still out there doing its shimmy. I'm partial to locking tail wheels. I know this has been discussed on this forum in the past but I doubt I'll put one on my Highlander.
My airframe does not have the bracket I see in your photos. One bolt connects the front of the spring in a channel. Maybe this was an improvement by the factory.
John Nealon
Wasilla, Alaska
Highlander Extreme #191
mykitlog.com/jnealon
Wasilla, Alaska
Highlander Extreme #191
mykitlog.com/jnealon
- FlyerChief
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 292
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:53 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
Hi Gil,
It appears in your photos like the tailwheel issue also created a rudder issue when it collapsed. Did it actually crush the bottom of the rudder? I assume that's why clipping the back of the rudder seems to be one of the mods that guys are doing.
I'm just wondering if it would be possible to make a retainer bracket that also would act as a standoff in the event of a tailwheel departure event... maybe just a bent post or steel ring welded 90 degrees to the to the bracket would work?
What do you think?
Maybe Steve Henry would be a good guy to provide feedback too. I know he's lost tailwheels also.
Dan
It appears in your photos like the tailwheel issue also created a rudder issue when it collapsed. Did it actually crush the bottom of the rudder? I assume that's why clipping the back of the rudder seems to be one of the mods that guys are doing.
I'm just wondering if it would be possible to make a retainer bracket that also would act as a standoff in the event of a tailwheel departure event... maybe just a bent post or steel ring welded 90 degrees to the to the bracket would work?
What do you think?
Maybe Steve Henry would be a good guy to provide feedback too. I know he's lost tailwheels also.
Dan
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When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it. ~Henry Ford
- Gil T
- Veteran Member
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:57 pm
- Location: Quartzsite AZ
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
I see a lot of guys are going for a non steering tail wheel which I guess is okay if you don't have to taxi on a lot of hard surface but I can see a lot of wear on the brakes. I spent a lot of time in interior Alaska in 180's and 185's and had my share of shimmying tail wheels. The only thing that was consistent was that everyone you talked to had a different version of what was wrong and how to fix it. The first thing I can say is that I am not a mechanic. I kind of told our maintenance people that we worked as a team. I break um you fix um. The first locking tail wheel I flew was a new 185 with 300hp. After you remembered to lock the tail wheel on take off it made a lot of difference in the feel of it. So if we're having a vote on it I'm for a locking TW.
When my tail wheel came off it was dangling by one steering spring and when it came off was when I landed at home. I can remember the rock that I hit that did the damage but I did't know about it until my touch down at home and the noise coming from the tail and then looking straight into the mid-day sun. That steering spring saved me about $650. Yes there was damage to the bottom of the rudder. I probably should have changed the bottom tube and had it welded to the next one up as I see several have done but not being a welder and wanting to get in the air soon I just straightened the tube and put it back as originally done. I know some kind of save device could be made but maybe that would encourage me to be braver than I should be.
Gil T
When my tail wheel came off it was dangling by one steering spring and when it came off was when I landed at home. I can remember the rock that I hit that did the damage but I did't know about it until my touch down at home and the noise coming from the tail and then looking straight into the mid-day sun. That steering spring saved me about $650. Yes there was damage to the bottom of the rudder. I probably should have changed the bottom tube and had it welded to the next one up as I see several have done but not being a welder and wanting to get in the air soon I just straightened the tube and put it back as originally done. I know some kind of save device could be made but maybe that would encourage me to be braver than I should be.
Gil T
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- Seasoned Member
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:08 am
Re: Twisted Tail Wheel Spring
I think I have talked about this tailwheel shimmy problem before. Steve Pierce and and his dad Gilbert have worked out the solution to the shimmy problem and have posted on supercub.org and shortwingpipers.org extensively. Do some searching on those two sites and you will find all the info you will ever need about tailwheels. It does not matter what your tailwheel is on, there is a certain geometry that it needs to adhere to or you will have problems. steerable, non-steerable, locking, whatever, follow the guidelines they explain in detail and you will be on your way to a happy tailwheel experience. R L Messenger