Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

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Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby Red7 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:21 am

Hello guys. This is my first time posting on here and I could really use your help. I'm feeling kind of stuck right now and I'd really appreciate some advice on what to do with this kit I have. Long story short....a little over a year ago I was talking to a guy a few hangars down that I had known for awhile. He knows I do some real estate and other investing on the side and he started talking to me about how the best investment out there right now is these Super Stol kits. He told me we could turn around and flip the kit for a profit because the factory was so back logged but he being a dealer had connections and could get them quickly and he'd already had buyers offering him $10k over what he paid for a kit. Or we could build the kit and sell it for a big profit because of the long lead time on factory built aircraft and he was supposedly in the process of building several of these himself because how much he could make on each one. Because I had known him for a while I trusted his word and went ahead and bought a kit. I won't go into all the details of what all was said as it's irrelevant but fast forward a year and nothing that was originally promised has panned out so the kit is still just sitting there.

Though these look like great aircraft, my focus is rotorcraft and trikes as a CFI so my original plan was purely as an investment without ever planning to fly or own one of these. Checking on the Just website it appears this guy isn't even a authorized dealer so now I need to figure out what to do with this kit. This has been a big learning experience for me as I'm a trusting person and a man of my word and I've done many deals on a handshake without ever getting myself into this type of situation (especially with someone I considered a friend) so I'd really appreciate your guys help in getting out of the situation I'm in.

I guess my options are to sell the kit for a lot less than I paid for it and cut my losses or I can pay someone to build the kit for me. How much would I really have to discount the kit to get it to sell? I do know a guy in Ohio who builds Super Cubs who said he'd build it for me and the guy is a perfectionist so I know it would turn out immaculate but my worry is that I'd just invest more money in this only to lose more unless the finished planes are worth more than what I'd have in it. I honestly would just love to get my money out of it but I know that won't happen with the kit. I don't have a clue if I got ripped off on the kit or if the "dealer" gave me a good deal but I've got $46k in it for the Superstol kit, with wing build Stage 2, Alodine, wing ribs, powder coat, parking brake kit, SS tabs and cable, Camlocks for Cowling and Turtle Deck. Now I remember the guy telling me that I didn't need to buy the really big tundra tires up front and the smaller ones were only a couple hundred bucks so I believe the kit I got had the smaller tires as he said we could add the big ones at a later time and save that money up front I'm not sure if the 21" are the ones I got or not. According to him he didn't make anything on the kit (other than picking it up at the factory) but so far, not much he has said has panned out so I don't know what to believe. Not including labor, what am I realistically looking at to finish the plane and what could I realistically expect to sell it for brand new finished to perfection? I can get large OEM pricing on Rotax engines and dealer pricing on MGL avionics so I'm thinking a 100HP engine and maybe MGL radio, glass panel, etc but I'm very open to your suggestions on what is the most popular avionics package. With the stage 2 wings, what's a realistic time frame to build this aircraft for someone with a good bit of experience so we can figure out what a fair labor price would be?

I know these are sweet aircraft but right now I have kind of a bad taste in my mouth after the runaround I've gone through so I really just want to cut my losses and move on so I really, really appreciate your advice on what's the best way of limiting my loss. Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate it!
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby Clark in AZ » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:55 am

Where are you located?
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby Red7 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:02 pm

I'm in Florida though we moved here from Scottsdale seven years ago so not far from Cave Creek.
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby Goldeneagle » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:18 pm

The same thing happened to me. Contact me and we can talk.
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby AV8R Paul » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:38 pm

You might go look at Keith Showalter’s - Alaska Super STOL Build Thread. (viewtopic.php?f=218&t=23764#p48602) He is working with Plane Fun Aircraft Builder Assist Program. He started his build Sat Jan 09, 2016, and he is pretty close to finished, as of Wed Mar 30, 2016. It would be worth your time to go look through his thread. I would imagine it has been some longs day’s and nights working on it. I do not believe he had any of the Pre Build Kits, but he has been working with Billy @ Plane Fun’s Builder Assist Program. I would guess it would take 6 to 9 month for someone that has never built one before. Personally, my biggest concern has been the recent rash of accidents they have had in the Super STOL’s, that is going to make it high dollars for insurance. Also in talking to the Factory they are only a couple of months out on their backlog of kits.

I recently retired from working at my job as an Engineer & have gotten my Light Sport Repairman Certification, and Rotax Maintenance Certifications. I have been thinking of selling my Kitfox and buying & building a SuperSTOL. I prefer the real Flaps & Ailerons. I have also looked at a few on Barnstormers for what I would consider a reasonable price $105K (A US Plane so US $) up to C$130K (a Canadian Plane so Canadian $). I just checked the exchange rate and Canadian $130,000 is about US $99415.36. I rolled up the cost on an Excel Spreadsheet (my days as an engineer are showing) and I figure it would be $105K to $110K depending on how it were equipped, maybe up to $115K, so there is not a lot of profit to play with, and especially if you pay someone to build it for you.

Does it have the SuperStol Spoilers? I see you have some interest, so if you don’t get any takers you might send me a Private Message. I’m still in the Tire Kicking Mode.

Regards,
Paul Z
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SuperSTOL XL - S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby dkshow » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:14 pm

I'm still a little surprised how quickly you can build a Superstol if you've got the right advice and tools. I built mine in Rob Pedersen's hanger in two and a half months. I'm currently waiting on a trailer, hope to be flying with in the next week or so. Robs plane is being test flown currently and from what I've heard is just spectacular. Weighs in the neighborhood of 750#, I'm not sure of the exact numbers.

Building a Superstol light is the best choice, light being the key word. I believe Rob has built several of the lightest Superstols to date. If you want to build one quickly, light and have a beautiful airplane you can be proud of I'd certainly give Rob Pedersen a call. He and I have been talking about a builder assist program for next fall, I can't say enough good things about my experience building with him.
Keith Showalter
More Photos at www.keithshowalter.com
Anchorage, Alaska Superstol N445K
Built in NC with Rob Pedersen, Plane Fun Aircraft
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby Red7 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:47 pm

Thanks for everyone's help and comments. It sounds like I'd be lucky to break even after having it built so I'm really leaning towards cutting my losses and selling the kit at a good price. I still can't believe all the BS this guy told me about how much profit you can make on a built aircraft. He recently told me the cheapest a built plane will go for is $130k so hearing what they really are worth is such a bummer but at least now I know I can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth. So if anyone is looking for a good deal on a kit please message me. Thanks!
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby AV8R Paul » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:48 pm

After seeing Keith's Report on building a SS in 2 1/2 months. With 21.66 days in the average month, 8 hours a day, at $75 per hour for the build. It would cost $32,499 just in labor. I don't think the average builder could build the SS in 2 1/2 months.
Labor $32,499
Kit $46,000
Paint $2,000
Rotax. $29,000
Radios $6,000
Glass Panel. $3,500
Total $118,999

That is why I'm struggling with the Super STOL. I'd want a Turbo 914 which would drive the cost up at least another $5 to $10 K.
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SuperSTOL XL - S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby av8rps » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:04 pm

Red7,

You might not like this, but I'm going to defend what your "friend" told you. Super Stols were bringing 130k and people were fighting over them as initially there were none to buy and the Super Stol was the hit of every airshow and magazine. And in some regards it still is. But if you are into real estate and investing you have to know how horrible this economy we are in really is. I know media keeps telling us how wonderful everything is, but that just isn't true. I have bought and sold quite a few airplanes over the years, and right now is the softest aircraft market I have ever seen.

The good news is, you have one of the hottest kits out there to sell. A LOT of people love the Super Stol.

I would not advise having it built unless you want to fly it for a while before you try to sell it, which might allow you to have some fun with it while the economy hopefully improves (????) I think having someone build it for you right now will just result in a bigger loss, in my opinion. They always cost more than we think. If you built it yourself paying no labor, you might (?) get minimum wage for what you did, but in the current state of economy, I'm not even sure about that?

So I would advise selling the kit as it is and with luck you will break even, or at least close. In the end even if you lose on it, it's unlikely it will be a huge loss.
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby Red7 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:31 pm

Paul, where did you get that $29k for the engine? I can get a brand new 912 100HP for under $17k. I realize the Just website shows about $29k for firewall forward but what all does that consist of to get it up to that price?
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby Red7 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:38 pm

Also, what is the average build time for a Stage 2 kit like mine for someone who has built other similar aircraft but not this exact one? Are we talking 1000 hrs, 500?
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby AV8R Paul » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:06 pm

Red7 wrote:Paul, where did you get that $29k for the engine? I can get a brand new 912 100HP for under $17k. I realize the Just website shows about $29k for firewall forward but what all does that consist of to get it up to that price?


GUESSTIMATE I’m just trying to give him an rough idea of what it will cost to build one. I would guess +/- 15% on the cost roll up. Also that at the CPS for the Rotax Line Maintenance, Maintenance & Heavy Maintenance Classes I took, they said approximately $29k, for a 912 ULS, and as I’m sure you know that varies like the Price of Gold!
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby AV8R Paul » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:00 am

Paul Z wrote:
Red7 wrote:Paul, where did you get that $29k for the engine? I can get a brand new 912 100HP for under $17k. I realize the Just website shows about $29k for firewall forward but what all does that consist of to get it up to that price?


GUESSTIMATE I’m just trying to give him an rough idea of what it will cost to build one. I would guess +/- 15% on the cost roll up. Also that at the CPS for the Rotax Line Maintenance, Maintenance & Heavy Maintenance Classes I took, they said approximately $29k, for a 912 ULS, and as I’m sure you know that varies like the Price of Gold!

Also, I didn’t have the cost of the Propeller, ELT, and the paint was a lowball.
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby alan » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:03 am

Just (get it?) to give you a ballpark figure, comparing apples to oranges, we built our Highlander in 10 months, 4 or 5 hours per day, 5 or 6 days a week. Total hours in the build was 531.

My helper was 87 years old and he provided a great deal of enthusiasm to the project as he really wanted to fly it.

And yes, we did fly together more than a few times.

Alan
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Re: Looking for advice on Just Super STOL kit

Postby moving2time » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:24 am

Red7, where can you get a new 100 HP Rotax 912 for 17K?
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