Just Wondering?

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Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.

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Just Wondering?

Postby av8rps » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:16 pm

Seeing the progress and evolution of the Escapade & Highlander to the Super Stol, and now to the Super Stol XL, I'm wondering how long it will be before we see the 1st highlander with a Titan 180 hp engine in it?

Yeah, I know they extended the fuselage on the Super Stol to make things work out better. But I'm sure if there's a will, there's a way to shoehorn a 180 hp Titan into a nice lightweight Highlander, making a little firebreathing Rocketship that would make more than a few take notice wherever it showed up.

Anyone been having those thoughts? Just curious...

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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby rmullins » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:28 am

Sounds like a lot of fun to me :-)
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby marl59 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:36 am

How about the Viking V-190T? 190 HP. I think you'd have to add abunch of weight to the tail and lose some useful load.
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby Swoopjack » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:57 pm

I would love to see a Highlander XL. Much of my flying will be 2 to 300 mile cross-country. I have 800 feet of grass Runway at my house so I don't need ultimate stol performance such as these superstol has. I need the cross-country performance. The Highlander is a little faster and has all the stol performance I will need. A Titan powered Highlander XL would be really nice.

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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby R Rinker » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:18 pm

Paul, I doubt that's going to happen unless they come up with stretch version designed for it. To go to that much horsepower you run into a multitude of issues. You could do a 'one of' and fly it carefully, but things like available rudder for slow flight torque...you might not be able to keep it straight if you used full power on take off..etc. etc...You might be able to tame it as the builder, but if anyone else ever flew it..could go bad. Troy was always scared about people who got ideas of putting too large an engine on an airframe engineered for 100 hp. Probably have to do a lot of reinforcing etc. Not worth the risk in my view.
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby danerazz » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:28 pm

Swoop,


You could do highlander wings on SS fuselage, even with regular highlander gear. I don't think what you are proposing is impossible, or even that difficult. I would call them and ask to speak to Troy about a custom mash-up, he can give you a good idea of what is possible. I have already heard of someone doing something very similar.
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby Swoopjack » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:04 pm

Thanks Dane, thats a good idea. Right now I'm watching the progress of the Rans S21 closely. They guesstimate 155 mph cruise with the titan with "good stol performance also". Supposed to have the prototype flyin B4 end of the year. I want to see what the slow end of the envelope is like. If it is compatable with 800 ft of grass, I will probably go that route. 155 cruise strikes my fancy pretty good.

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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby av8rps » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:36 am

What made me think about the Titan 180 on a Highlander came from a discussion I had with John McBean at Kitfox Aircraft about him putting that engine in their Super Sport stock airframe. He said the plane is awesome to fly and aside from having a lot more power it handles pretty much the same as the Continental IO 240 or Lycoming 0-235 versions that have been flying for years. Oh, and also worth mentioning, there is a guy flying a Titan 180 powered Kitfox Super Sport ON AMPHIB FLOATS for a while now. John said it is pretty incredible!

So thinking how well the Kitfox is working out is what really made me wonder how long before someone pieced together the "Super Highlander"? Now I will admit if you were to extend the Highlander fuselage and beef up the airframe it would be that much better, but when you compare the Kitfox Super Sport to the Highlander, in many regards the Highlander is already the larger of the two aircraft, and has a much larger tail, so based on that it should handle the Titan at least as good as the Super Sport Kitfox, shouldn't it? Oh, and built as an experimental rather than an LSA, the gross weights of the Kitfox and the Highlander are essentially the same, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my Rotax powered Highlander. But as I see people moving more and more towards larger horsepower engines, I was thinking "Aw, what the heck? Go big or stay home...".

Plus it was kinda quiet here on the forum :wink:
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby Leandro » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:33 am

Hi all,

I think that in between of the Rotax 100hp and a Titan 180hp there should be some more options to consider... I mean, we are talking about a big upgrade there, both in terms of power and particularly in terms of weight.

Let's not forget also the power to weight ratio argument: a Titan 180hp, considering its weight, will certainly dedicate some of its extra hp to bring up its own extra weight...

Recently a SUPERSTOL has been equipped with a Rotax 912 turbo conversion by Vz POWER, which offers 120hp for 3kg more weight than a stock aspirated 912 ULS, without the added complexity and cost of a Rotax 914, but with the same overall performance. It looks to me that those solutions are quite interesting for airframes of the category of a Highlander or Kitfox. CG will stay as originally designed, empty weight stays under control, and at the end having a turbo on a Rotax will provide a very good acceleration and climb performance (and good performance at altitude as well of course).

More infos here: http://www.912turbokit.com
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EF6A3350.MOV.Still002.jpg
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby dkshow » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:26 pm

I could be wrong but I feel like I saw a stretch highlander with a 180 being built somewhere. The only major difference between the two airplanes is the wing right? Why couldn't you order the stretch SS fus and put highlander wings on it? I know I've seen highlanders with the tail shock as well.
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby 957DK » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:07 pm

I've been considering building Flying Legend's Tucano kit. Flying Legend is an Italian company that's building a 3/4 scale replica of the Embraer/Shorts Tucano. One of the options available is a Rotax 912 with a mechanical supercharger that makes 140hp. The company that makes the supercharger is also Italian and their website is in Italian which I don't speak. I believe a supercharger kit for a Rotax 912 is available. Might be a fun option for more power on the Highlander and SuperStol.
I've driven turbo and supercharged automobiles and I currently own a supercharged car. I prefer the supercharger over the turbo for a number of reasons that I won't get into here.
Just one more option to muddy the waters.

Chiao,
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby FlyerChief » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:47 pm

I have been looking at this supercharger for few years now and even mounted my Rotax engine forward two inches from the firewall to accommodate this supercharger, but time, finances and other priorities have delayed me from actually installing one in my Highlander. I still plan to do it hopefully later this year. I spoke via email with a fellow who installed one in his Kitfox and he likes the performance improvement.
If you are using a factory bed mount, there are a number of mods required including manufacturing an extended mounting bracket for the Lord mounts, re-positioning the outlets from the water pump manifold, cutting out a small brace in the mount and welding in another reinforcing piece, as well as welding in a couple of extensions in the rear exhaust tubes to clear the engine mount supports. I believe it would likely be a lot easier to start with a ring mount since it positions the engine forward a couple of inches farther than the bed mount. In any event, expect there to be a few mods to your existing installation in order to fit it into the engine compartment.
Here is the English URL from the supercharger manufacturer in Italy. http://flygas.info/en/kit-rotax-engines-ul.html
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Re: Just Wondering?

Postby Leandro » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:03 am

Vz POWER turbo conversion have also been installed consistently in South Africa by an aircraft manufacturer (they produce the Safari/Explorer range of LSA crafts, basically a local intepretation of the Kitfox), and the pictures of their installation look pretty clean and nice. Considering the local flying conditions and average altitude, it is really a good test bed for this conversion, which has been around for a number of years down there by now. The manufacturer is "Kitplanes for Africa", their planes look quite well finished by the way.

More infos on the 912 turbo kit: http://www.912turbokit.com
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Vz POWER Kitplanes Safari.jpg
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