Oratex is like Yoga Pants

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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Your welcome Bruce
I hope someone can learn from my mistakes.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

More aileron covering pics

Iron at 130 - it says celcius but temp gun says 130 f, not sure wich one to believe.

I was teying to lay it down flat so no wrinkles to fix later, buuuut was not that lucky.
Left a wrinkle line at the rivets that I shrunk down with heat gun.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Here is a pic of the aileron with 2 coats of the glue before I stirred it up. Totally transparrent, very thin.

You can kind of see the glue around the rivets

You can also see the “alodine” conversion color on the metal.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Flaps getting a good scrubbin before acid “conversion” and covering.

Conversion is a must so that corrosion does not delaminate the glue.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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SheepdogRD
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by SheepdogRD »

Note for anyone using silver Oratex: for small parts touch up -- hinges and the like -- try Rust-Oleum Painters Touch 2X Ultra Cover Metallic Aluminum paint. It's an amazingly good color match for the silver Oratex fabric, both in and out of the sunlight. Like the Oratex, it has a satin finish. It's probably not useful for large areas, as it's hard to get a rattle can to cover evenly. But for small parts, it's great.
Rust-Oleum Painters Touch 2X Ultra Cover Metallic Aluminum 249128.jpeg
It's available at hardware stores and Walmart, SKU 249128.

Here's a sample. The outer part is a an area of overspray on masking tape where I pulled it off a painted part and stuck it on an aileron. The hole in the middle shows (unpainted) Oratex.
20180520_140129 s.jpg
This NOT the same as "Rust-Oleum Universal Metallic Paint & Primer In One, Titanium Silver". I used the Titanium Silver originally, and it's close to the Oratex, but it's just too shiny and metallic. Now I'm repainting the parts in the Ultra Cover, and I'm getting what I wanted in the first place.
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Richard Holtz
Highlander N570L -- Ms. Tonka -- in gestation

If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.
AV8R Paul
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by AV8R Paul »

Thanks for the tip on the Paint, I believe Chris is using it on my plane.
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by AV8R Paul »

Chris sent me s photo of the access panels, with a comment that the Silver Rust-Oleam paint is a very close match.
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Thankyou for the tips om the paint!!

Lars cam to see my project and I asked him about my problem areas.
Sounds like the reason that the fabric wont shrink any more around the vertical transition is because I got the fabric temp too hot.

I had the gun set to the right temp, and it was working good, but had alot to shink in that area so I stayed in that spot for long enough for the fabric to heat up beyond its shrink temp, at which point it becomes “set”. It did not discolor, and is still structurally sound, just wont shrink any more right there.
So, where you have big wrinkles -
DONT SHRINK THEM ALL AT ONE TIME!

Shrink some then go somewhere else and let it cool.

We also did a test on my test panel that I had painted with Stewarts metalic blue. Severe stretxh/ dent then reshrink with heat, no change in the paint!!
Very pleased with the Stewarts paint, although the metalic is hard to get on evenly.

Lars also brought me some of the Oratex bondo to fix the wrinkles in finish tapes, will post results next week or so.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
TD1
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by TD1 »

Thanks for the updates, just in case you think nobody is following.... I'm one of what I'm sure is many who check these builds everyday, learning a lot.

Oratex bondo? Interesting, I don't think I've seen that on their web page. Is it color as well or will you have to paint over it?

Tom
Tom Dougherty
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

The “bondo” is a two part filler that stays flexible, to be painted over or taped over.

My buddy has used it and really likes it. I will post pictures when I try it out.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Finally got around to cvering flaps and putting tapes on ailerons too.
I am getting better at it, less wrinkles and deformation to fix.

The tape is a whole different animal.
it is made from oratex 600 so it is thinner and shrinks and deforms easier.
It is very easy to go too fast with heat and felt and get wrinkles that wont come out.
Dont do the tapes untill you have plenty of extra time, dont get in a hurry.

With the thinner tape you can shrink any deformation away - if you dont get it too hot too fast.
If you can see it shrinking its too hot.

Tried all methods of shrinking around rivets again, pointy hobby iron works the best, by far - but you have to be careful.
Put tapes on with cooler temp to avoid deformation then go back over with the final temp to set glue.
Use the iron to tack the tapes down as the heat gun likes to shrivel the edge if not against something else.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

When covering the smaller pieces it is easy to get a really good looking first side by heating and stretching the fabric tight and pulling it over any lumps or curves ( rivets etc.) on the trailing edge but then you get to the other side and your fabric is very deformed and you have preformed wrinkles to deal with. Better to pull tight without heat when wrapping around edge. Then you have a straight and flat piece of fabric to start with on that side.

BEFORE covering flaps and ailerons, run a drill through the holes that the fabric rivets go in. Not only are they not punched the right size, but the glue also dries in them when applying for fabric. Drilling through fabic and reinforcement tape sucks.

I used vise grips and a rivet stem to poke the rivet holes through fabric. Little cheap battery powered solder iron works good for sealing fabric holes for rivets, and cleaning the hole up. Do fabric holes first then reinforce tape then holes again. The yoga pants effect will magnify gap between rivet and reinforcement tape, run the tape right up to it.
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BucF16
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BucF16 »

I'm just about to start my cover work; so a couple of questions:
1) Both manuals describe glueing the perimeter first ( leading edge, trailing edge, end, and buttrib )then partial shrinking each bay followed by riveting (stitching) the fabric to the ribs. No problem on the top. However, on the Highlander, with the bottom being concave in contour, this method would pull the fabric away from the surface. My guess is on the bottom panel, we need to at least activate the glue to the ribs before any shrinking.

2) On the tail feathers, ailerons and flaps, Did you use a single wrap or 2 pieces (bottom then top)?

3 Body filler, how important is the smoothness and blending? I have some minor pitting after the first coat. Did you apply more than one coat? My guess is the glue (Hotmelt) will fill in the unevenness and or the fabric will stretch over the minor gaps.

Thanks in advance!

Bruce
Bruce Johnson Highlander # 393
"Because I fly, I envy no man on Earth"
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http://www.bruceshighlander.blogspot.com
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

Hey Bruce,
I started heating and ironing in center and worked out. I think you have to do the concave surfaces first, starting in the center of coarse.
2. I used single pieces, and 2 piece, depending on how difficult it was to wrap. That being said, the fewer the seams the better.

3. Yes, 2 coats of glue. Really thin ones.
The glue can be used to fill low spots.

But

Even tho heat sets the glue, it is not "hot melt". It will not smooth out with heat.

So to answer the question - if you want perfectly smooth, use filler.

What did you mean by pitting? Air bubbles in the glue?

You have to be really careful not to make air bubbles or brush strokes in the glue because they will show through the fabric.

You have to have enough glue that it will "melt" into the fabric weave, but not so much that you get brush stroke ridges.
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BucF16
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BucF16 »

The Pits!
Well, I've been truing to figure our a way to explain it for a couple of days. So, we see what you mean by your "Yoga Pants" title. Anything "proud" to the the general structure will show like a sore thumb. But lets say one has cellulite :shock:! the opposite of "out" but an indentation. I have a few areas that have small pits or gouges in the filler that didn't sand well. 1/16 to 1/32 deep. I seems to me, that the fabric would stretch over the small areas, and not sink into them.

Thank you very much for your response. I'm happy to see you back in the shop.

Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce Johnson Highlander # 393
"Because I fly, I envy no man on Earth"
Builder web site:
http://www.bruceshighlander.blogspot.com
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